Save This Franchise: Astros in despair, beyond repair

man, fans of other teams want oswalt so much. can't blame them.

 

oswalt stands behind santana as the most consistently fantastic pitcher in baseball. that fact plus his contract should make him close to untouchable. I'd be way beyond pissed if we traded my favorite player but the team getting him would have to give the haul of a lifetime.

 

It would have to be like the deal the Cowboys got for Walker back in the day, Roy O is going to be scary good this year with the extra bats he can now just go out and pitch and not have to be perfect.

 

They are just bitter because a great player isn't playing in New York or Boston.

They will continue to try to denigrate the rest of our roster in hopes we will trade Roy to the Yankees or Bosox for scraps.

 

I agree about the pitching and lack of prospects, but disagree with the doomsday forecasting.

 

yawn.

 

Like the article said, Oswalt has a no-trade clause so trade speculation is pretty useless. That said, even if he didn't have a trade clause, I still think trading him would be a big mistake.

The problems the Astros have in near future are a lot bigger than any reasonable return they could expect to get for Roy. Look at the Santana deal, he's the best pitcher in his generation and i was completely underwhelmed with the deal Twin received. A similar return won't make the astros much more likely to contend in 2010 or 11.

The one thing that made this past season tolerable was Craig Biggio. Oswalt is the best pitcher in Astros history and could go down as a Houston sports Icon. If the astros are going to be terrible the next few years, at least lets be terrible with Oswalt and Berkman.

 

Hey bud...thanks for the advice...Hope Houston is treating you well...

Now back on the topic...As funny and shameful as this article was, there are shreds of truth laced in here...I am coming around to the notion that Lee and O could help fill the farm with great prospects...I may be in the minority, but O can't do it alone and if Lee gets any bigger, well...

 

Is this guy on crack? Pence by himself is going to have at least 30 homers. Wigginton should be good for around 20 or so.

 

No, he writes for Maxim Online. OK, so maybe, but it's quite probable that he's just naturally that way.

 

The guy who wrote the article either:
1. Has a drug and alcohol problem; or
2. Is too stupid for words; or
3. Has his head jammed where the sun doesn't shine; or
4. A combination of the first three.

There are so many things wrong with what he has said that I don't feel like taking the time to respond to each of them.

 

You forgeting the biggest difference between Santana's trade value and Oswalt's, money. Santana was due a huge raise, while Oswalt is locked down on a "reasonable" contract for the next few years. For that reason alone, we could demand more than what the Twins got for Santana.

 

Oswalt has also stated that this is likely to be his last contract. So why would a team offer up their 4 or 5 best prospects for a pitcher who is likely to be gone in 2 or 3 years while Santana is signing for 7 years with the Mets?

 

With the exception of wanting to trade Oswalt, I completely agree with everything said in this article and feel the Astros will do worse than what that guy even projected. He didn't even really go over the complete and utter embarrassment that is this team's farm system. Our players are so bad we shouldn't even be allowed to field a team above A-ball. The ineptitude of this "old-school" GM Ed Wade has made itself apparent through his numerous sell-low buy-high "blockbuster" deals for over the hill players (Tejada) and one year wonders (Valverde). I mean, trading for Tejada when there had been multiple sources suggesting his steroid use, corroborated with his improved numbers during those periods and subsequent nosedive after the accusations, and ONE DAY BEFORE THE MITCHELL REPORT CAME OUT. How do you think those negotiations went, huh?

Baltimore: "Say, I've got a great special on sale for today only! Your best prospect and five other ok-dudes for my overweight can't-even-play-shortstop-anymore all-star shortstop"?

Ed Wade: "I love running. What's this about a signature? Where do I sign? I'll see ya at the annual GM barbeque! You gonna bring your wife? I hope she gets back on her feet soon after that operation."

You couldn't make this s___ up. Put Houston up there with Oakland (with Al Davis), Minneapolis (Carl Pohlad), New York (Dolan), and Baltimore (Angelos) as fan bases that have no recourse but to wait for the passing of their teams' senile owners while abstaining from mentioning it for fear of coming off as heartless.

 

This is hilarious, for three reasons.

First, the Astros' system is terrible. It's the worst in the league, cited by this and a number of other sources. You even mentioned it yourself! So who the hell cares if the Astros gave up their "best" prospect (which isn't even true, Towles has much more potential than Patton) when the system is that bad? This, to me, is the biggest flaw among baseball fans; this mentality that someone is automatically good if he's a team's best prospect. Without context, it's meaningless. The 10th best prospect on some teams is superior to the best prospect on others. Essentially, you're looking to whine and throwing out an abstract term with no specific detail or relevance to the team.

Second, it's sad that people actually believe that the Astros were either surprised by the Mitchell Report or lacked the negotiating prowess to make Baltimore wait. They could have, had they wanted to. They didn't. More than any other sport, baseball is full of holier than thou fans who love to rant about "cheating"... and by the Astros completing the trade one day before the Mitchell Report, it gives them plausible deniability for when those fans point the finger at the organization for lacking class. I'm pretty sure it was the Astros, not the Orioles, forcing this deal to get done before the release of the Mitchell Report.

Third, let's discuss Miguel Tejada's defense. Sixth among all shortstops in zone rating. 18th in RF. Middle of the pack in RZR. That spells average. He's no healthy Adam Everett, that's for sure, but he's also not a Derek Jeter that will cost you runs relative to the average player. Could you please provide some actual evidence that Tejada "can't play shortstop anymore," or are you more interested in illogical b****ing for the sake of b****ing?

 

Great points as far as the prospects we gave up, and about the Astros completing the deal before the Mitchell report coming up. Our system is terrible, and you are right in that just because we gave up top prospects doesn't mean those guys were going to translate to game-changers.

And I hadn't thought of the trade that way, that the Astros did it for PR reasons.

As far as Tejada, you are right, his zone rating from I saw is 7th among SS last year. He had 15 errors, which is mediocre. But from most credible sources I've read, he is not a very good defensive SS. Whether he his held to a higher standard because of his name, I don't know. But I know that he has been labeled around the league as sub-par, and I'm not sure ZR is enough to change my mind, simply because I'm aware of how hard it is to quantify defensive statistics. Its almost more of a "gotta see to know" type of thing to me still. I'll admit I obviously didn't watch many Orioles games last year, so I'm basing this on others' opinions.. but it does to seem to be a consensus. From what I've heard also, the Orioles had been trying to convince him to move to 3B for the past couple of seasons, which always is a sign that a SS is done defensively.

 

The problem, as you said, is the context. He's looked at as sub-par relative to what he was a few years ago, but in the grand scheme of things, he's average. Don't read too much into the 3B talk. The Orioles had Melvin Mora at 3B the last two seasons, with terrible OPS numbers (for a 3B) of .733 and .759. That meant moving Tejada to 3B would be a dramatic upgrade offensively from Mora and most likely defensively. Meanwhile, it shouldn't be that hard to find a low .700s OPS guy at SS with good defense, which would make it a net upgrade all the way around. I'd agree with you if Tejada would have hypothetically been bumping any kind of quality option at 3B... but in Baltimore's specific case, it's not a reflection that he can't play SS.

Yes, there is the chance Tejada could continue his slide defensively, and if he does, it's a problem. But as of now, he's middle of the road. I'd agree with you that he's not "very good," but I think sub-par is stretching it by all available evidence. He won't make Adam Everett plays, but he won't be a Loretta-type liability, either.

 

It's been rated in the bottom 3rd to bottom quarter since '03 or so. Yet, over the past year, the farm system has produced, in full or in part:

starting RF - Pence
starting SS - Tejada
starting C - Towles
closer - Valverde
setup - Villarreal

Toss in 2/5 of the starting rotation (Sampson, Wandy), some guys who should/could be able to help the staff at some point this season (McLemore, Paulino, Nieve). Go back a little bit & throw in a #2 starter (JJ) & a good mid-season pickup in '06 (Huff).

That's not bad MLB production for a terrible minor league system.

The next 2 drafts are huge. After Miller signs somewhere, they'll have 5 of the top 130ish picks this June. There's talent in VZL & DR academies that will come over in the next couple of years. They desperately need the few higher-ceiling guys already in the system to develop.