Saudi prince donates $10 million to Trade Center fund, rejected by Giuliani

While he may have condemned the attack on the WTC, for him to say we should look at why this happened is basically saying...you deserved it.

Whether you agree with previous U.S. Policy or not, its an AFTERHOUGHT! What's at hand is now. Like Bush said, you are either WITH US or NOT!

You don't live in New York City so I don't expect any of you to REALLY understand what its like. Ask ANY New Yorker what its like, who's been down there, and you will have a different perspective. Every day, you can STILL smell the burning in the city.

Now is not the time to point finger and blame but to send a message consistent with the President and the Majority of the United States People. Plain and simple. If your with us, your in, if your not, step aside and we'll get back to you later.

He can take his money and keep it for all I'm concerned. As for you, I'm not attacking you but understand that what you see on TV in New York is nothing. You don't live here, you don't have Anthrax 10 blocks from your house, you didn't lose friends at WTC, you don't know what it's like. I'm ok with your opinion of dissent but you'd feel different if you live here.
I'M WITH YOU RUDY!

 

you are either with us or against us is a complete anthisis of america. isn't it the diversity of views that makes it great? these remarks have been made by numerous people...hell everywhere from extremely ultra-conservative people to KKK leaders to the right winged liberals that want every drug to be allowed.

reasoning behind crime is incredibly important. when we see that most crime is commited by people living in poverty that shows us maybe we should riase the standard of living right? same deal. of course killing 1 person and 6000 is much different and no one denies this.

and i really wish you'd re-read what you said and apply that to living in a un refugee camp for three generatiosn with no water or food. you can't work cause the street you used to clean was in 'israel' and now youc an't go there and work. you can't support your three kids who're crying out of hunger. your two brothers have died and your husband was shot.

 

This is ridiculous. First off it's not rudy's money. how does he get the right to turn it down?

Come on, how would yall feel if the taliban were able to reject the food drops for it's people because the people making the drops disagree with the taliban's policies? How is this different?

Didn't bush just ask american children to donate a dollar for afghanistan children? Guess what? American disagrees with afghanistan foreign policy, just like the prince disagrees with us foreign policy. The mayor shouldn't reject money the people and the country needs just because the donor and the mayor disagree about politics.

 

I don't live there and neither do you. I live in NEW YORK and the USA! I don't mind opinions at all. Opinions and the ability to voice them is what makes this nation great!

My opinion is with the Mayor of New York, the President of the U.S., and the rest of the civilized world. You can't sympathize or reason with these Terrorists. There is no Justification for what happened. Rudy's Comments and decision to not take the money was the RIGHT thing. He is WITH US! The majority of the American People, and the Free World. I commend him for his actions. As for you and the minority of believers, I pray that you don't have to go what many New Yorkers have to go through on a daily basis.

By the way, I have family in a third world nation-(Philippines) and know EXACTLY what it is like to have them starving, shot at, KIDNAPPED, etc. So don't preach to me about how I would feel.

 

<B>My opinion is with the Mayor of New York, the President of the U.S., and the rest of the civilized world. </B>

The President of the US was not happy with the Mayor of New York's decision to reject the money.

<B>Rudy's Comments and decision to not take the money was the RIGHT thing. He is WITH US!</B>

So, now, is Rudy with us and the President against us, or vice-versa? Or is it possible there actually is middle ground?

 

Look, I agree that we SHOULD look at our actions and how they influenced the attack but I absolutely DO NOT think it was deserved. Those are two very separate issues.

The fact is that what happened in NYC, right or wrong, was, in part, a response to the US's support of Israel, perceived or actual. If we simply put on blinders and say, "We are absolutely innocent," we are being naive.

Just because we think what we are doing is right doesn't mean it always results in a positive outcome. It has been reported that the millions raised by Live Aid in the 80's did more to fuel the war in Ethiopia than it did to feed the hungry. If we wouldn't have raised the money, the war likely would have ended sooner and people may have acutally suffered <i>less</i>. That is cause and effect. We tried to do something we thought would help and it ended up backfiring.

In the middle east, we have adopted a stance for decades that is an afront to many Arabs and Muslims. That is a fact. It doesn't mean that we deserved what we got. It just means that we fell subject to the same laws of nature that govern everyone. I don't see anything wrong with accepting that what we do has consequences, both good an bad. In fact, it is healthier to have a raised awareness of how fragile life can be and how important each and every decision we make really is.

Personally, if a heightened awarness of the value of life and the accountibility of our actions is the result of this horrible tragedy, I consider it a gift. Learning that all life is precious and that all decisions are important is maybe the most valuable lesson we could ever learn.

 

I invite everyone here to come to New York City and See for YOURSELF the devastation. See what it's like to hear sirens, fire trucks, bomb squads, etc. through all hours of the day and night. Experience the security check points at the Tunnels and bridges. Smell the beautiful dead rotting flesh and the sweet smell of Asbestos and smoke! See the many wandering people still looking for their loved ones. Visit the many memorials and funerals that happen every day. Then tell me it was wrong for the mayor to turn down the money. It's easy for you all to criticize because you are not here. Easy to talk when you haven't experienced suffering. It's easy for you all to be such WISE GUYS when you don't have to live this crap every day!

Flights and hotels are cheap right now! Why don't you help the economy and see for yourself!

 

Rich: I don't think anyone would deny the suffering of New Yorkers. That really isn't the point. I also don't think you can determine that anyone hasn't "experienced suffering."

This isn't a discussion of who is to blame or how much it hurts. For me, this is simply the realization that we are subject to the laws of nature, good and bad. It doesn't make this event any less tragic or the perpetrators any less guilty or wrong. It simply means that humanity has the opportunity to grow and learn from an awful experience.

It would be dishonorable to the memory of those who died and to those who lost loved ones to not grow into better people as a result. Their legacy should be the growth of a nation and a species.

If, in 50 years, we can say that this experience resulted in a stronger, more peaceful world, their lives will have not been lost in vein.

 

Jeff:I agree that we should use this event to try and make our society a better and peaceful place. However, as a person who lost 3 people that I cared about, it would be a dishonor to them to have accepted the money from that Saudi Prince. I know my loved ones that passed away would've felt the same way if it was me that died and them who watched in horror.

If the Saudi's REALLY want to help New York, don't give us the money-which is probably the same money that financed this terrible act. Help us FIND the Terrorists! Help our Troops overseas. Freeze their assets. Do something! You can help New York and my loved ones that I lost by bringing the people that did this to Justice!

 

<B>Help us FIND the Terrorists!</B>

Umm, they already are.

<B>Help our Troops overseas.</B>

Umm, they already are.

<B>Freeze their assets.</B>

Umm, they already are.

<B>Do something!</B>

Umm, they already are. One man tried to do something extra.

 

I actually don't believe the Prince meant anything bad by it. Maybe the timing of such a statement was inappropriate...but it has truth to it. He basically just tried to explain on "Larry King Live" what he meant and he was just speaking openly as a friend. Talked about how the US is a country of free speech. How he would not donate the money to another agency...he didn't feel it was an appropriate action after the mayor rebuked him.

The Mayor's comments about this are coming up. It will be interesting to get his reaction here soon.

 

<B>Saudi businessmen are known to have funded various terrorist organizations as well. </B>

American businessmen are known to have funded terrorist organizations also (IRA). What a country's citizens do does not reflect what the government believes.

<B>Saudi Arabia is not a perfect partner when it comes to fighting terrorism. </B>

No they haven't. Nor have we been a perfect partner to them. All countries focus on their own interests first. The point is that they are helping now.

<B>If there was no oil, there would be no Prince.</B>

And US consumers would be paying far more for our everyday life. What's your point?

Amazing how people want to turn an unconditional $10,000,000 donation into a bad thing.

 

No, they are not being very helpful. They have refused to allow us to use either their airspace or their bases in any military operations against any state. We built them a state-of-the-art (actually, we own it, it's just on their territory) and they will not let us use it even for communications and planning. They are making a token effort to locate terrorists within their country; they know who many of them are but are doing nothing to nab them. They are also not opening up their intelligence archives to us so that we can nab those guys. Most importantly, they have refused to freeze any assets as per our request, which is probably the biggest insult.

They are not being helpful at all, mainly because they are afraid of seeming to be too friendly to America so their people won't revolt. Their population is a hair-trigger away from revolting anyway, so I can understand their position, but that doesn't help any in this situation.

 

<B>No, they are not being very helpful. They have refused to allow us to use either their airspace or their bases in any military operations against any state. We built them a state-of-the-art (actually, we own it, it's just on their territory) and they will not let us use it even for communications and planning. They are making a token effort to locate terrorists within their country; they know who many of them are but are doing nothing to nab them. They are also not opening up their intelligence archives to us so that we can nab those guys. Most importantly, they have refused to freeze any assets as per our request, which is probably the biggest insult.
</B>

I'm not sure where you get your information, but according to US News & World Report, Saudi Arabia has committed to intelligence sharing, bases for air strikes, and bases for combat troops. The magazine has a map of each country in the region, where they stand, what the have committed to, and what they are considering.

Unfortunately, you can't run airstrikes against Afghanistan from Saudi Arabia without overflight permissions from Iran, which obviously has not granted that.

 

<B>I'm sure the White House wasn't pleased because the Prince is an important ally in the region, but why mix politics with charity?</B>

Isn't "mixing politics with charity" exactly what Guiliani is doing by rejecting the money for political reasons?

 

Saudi has committed to some intelligence sharing, but they are not being fully cooperative. Let's just say that there is much more they could do, as many Al Qaeda operatives are Saudis, and the Saudis aren't spilling all the beans on them.

As for their military cooperation, it is nil. As of this moment, they are not allowing us to use their airbases to hit anyone (and I'm not talking about Afghanistan), and they have flatly refused to allow us to stage ground troops out of their territory. We have requested both. Think for a minute why we would ask them to stage ground troops out of their territory - it has nothing to do with Afghanistan...

They are not being cooperative. I don't care what US News & World Report says, because it is only one source and is not always accurate. There are other sources of information that will keep you more up to date. Hell, watch CNN - it, FOX, and MSNBC have been reporting for two weeks (yes, today included) what I just mentioned.