Saudi Arabia Will Protect Sunnis if the U.S. Leaves

HayesStreet,

The only circumstance under which you can be right is if the US finish the job. As in, they leave the country with every thing going good.

You think people ANYWHERE in Iraq feeel any safer right now than they did when Saddam was in power?

Hell no. HELL no.

As I said... If this is what it takes to reach a goal, then people are willing to sacrifice short-term well being for long-term benefits.

But if this is the end result, then no, absolutely no one prefers this thing going on right now. Even the Kurds and the Shi'ites, who are currently not one iota safer now than they were under Saddam, don't prefer this.

Currently, the only positive thing that has come out of this war is that Saddam can't threaten America or its allies anymore. I'm sure that's not the only reason this war was waged.

 

Iraq is a catastrophic disaster, OK. But there are thousands and millions of Shias and Kurds much better off than under Saddam. Those near Baghdad are obviously worse off though. If the civil conflict (or war, if you please) spreads to all areas of the country, then you will be correct. But that has not happened yet.

 

LOL, you need to go ask an Iraqi how he/she feels....





You think you know, but you have no idea !

 

Sure, the Kurds certainly do.

It is understandable that many Iraqis don't prefer the current instability. However that doesn't translate to mean that they prefer to be back under Saddam either.

Oh yeah, well maybe YOU should go ask an Iraqi how she/he feels...So THERE, smart guy.

 

As I already pointed out: It is understandable that many Iraqis don't prefer the current instability. However that doesn't translate to mean that they prefer to be back under Saddam.

 

The ones I know hated Saddam but preferred life under Saddam to what exists in Iraq now, specifically in Bagdad.

 

19 out of 20 were safer during saddam. thats 95%. thats not many. thats everyone.

 

19 out of 20 feel security was better. Again that doesn't equate to preferring living under Saddam. 19 out of 20 Russians probably felt security was better in the USSR than now. That doesn't mean 19 out of 20 would chose living under Soviet totalitarianism. Keep repeating the same thing or deal with the point. Your choice.

 

hayes its a shocking day when i finally find someone more out of touch with reality than rumsfeld.

but congrats. you have your head more in the sand than him. and soon it'll be more in the sand than the entire administration. or by then you'll carve out some semantic explanation of your words you use today to fit some other position. and to be honest its pretty impressive.

 

Well, it doesn't answer my argument but I guess you had a third choice and you took it! Congrats to you!

 

You see the problem here is that you go by "give me liberty or give me death" when not everyone goes by that theory.

Kurds feeling more secure now is your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. I hold the exact opposite opinion. I live in the middle east. I see the people who moved out of Iraq, I see what they say. My frikkin GF is Kurdish!!

Now if 19 out 0f 20 felt more secure, I'm pretty sure a HUMONGOUS share of that 95% also would prefer going back to the old regime. Once upon a time, Persians felt like they needed an overhaul, more fairness, more stability, and less corruption. So they replaced the Shah with the Ayatollah. Soon after, everyone realized that they were probably screwed both ways, but had to suffer for years to achieve the same thing. Take that as probably the closest example/case to what's going on in Iraq today.

 

if some felt more secure with their EX than their current one, is it so impossible to believe that they'd rather be back with their EX given a chance?

 

saddam was brutal. but you could hedge for that. dont actively criticize him. dont start revolts. and you'll be ok. sure if your people in the north or the south do it you might be screwed. but theres a level of certainty in that. whereas today there isn't any certainty.

i'm cool with give me liberty or give me death. but demanding that give iraqis liberty or give them death is absurd.

 

And your opinion is your opinion. Nothing more nothing less. Congratulations.

So you are an authority on all things Kurdish? I don't think so. When the regime in power is actively pursuing crushing you, you pretty much have bottomed out. Anything else is an improvement. I've had quite a bit of expose to the Kurdish community and that's the impression I get.

Again that is your opinion. IIRC there have been polls that delineated this exact point and they didn't come out conforming to your opinion. Don't have a link but I'll look around for it.

Yeah, ok. So if you're the majority of the population then you're screwed. That's nice.

 

so tell us. are you willing to take on turkey too? i mean they also brutally repress their kurds.

saddam killed less people in iraq in 20 years than have died as a result of this war in the past 3 and a half.

 

Not sure what you mean by 'take on Turkey.' But as long as we're talking turkey.....bwahahahahaha...

Kurds opinion

Not true. Please don't float the Hopkins/Lancet 600,000 number - it's been thoroughly debunked. But if you want to use high end estimates you're still wrong. Take 200,000 Kurds before the invasion of Kuwait + 300,000 Shiites in the '91 uprising + 300,000 Iraqis in the Iran/Iraq War + 100,000 Iraqis in the Gulf War + the million dead Iraqis from sanctions....you're still way short.

 

who incited the shiites to uprise and left them defenseless?

so Bush is reponsible for the 3,000 dead americans in iraq war?

who put a sacntion on iraq?

 

Hayes don't tell me you now endorse that ridiculous Saddam Hussein claim that sanctions killed millions?

You used to scoff at it and get real mad when people would make that claim, and point out how they were UN sanctions, etc.


http://bbs.clutchfans.com/showthread.php?p=951515&highlight=sanctions#post951515
http://bbs.clutchfans.com/showthread.php?p=558074&highlight=sanctions#post558074

The only person who ever claimed this was Saddam, in his PR campaign to get them lifted - there's no evidence of this so I find it bizarre that you're willing to take him at face value.

Fun fact - to kill the 50 -100,000 civilians or so over the last 3.5 years, Saddam Hussein would have to personally kill 50-100 people per day, every single day.

[Hayesstreet] the UN did you dummy [/hayesstreet]

 

lol. Framing the argument to avoid unsettling factual evidence as usual.