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Russia's political machine and military leaders = morons

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Surfguy, Aug 17, 2000.

  1. Surfguy

    Surfguy Contributing Member

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    How can Putin or any of those other arrogant cornholios care about those Russians that went down in that sub? They turned away everyone's help until it was too late. Those people probably froze to death before they ran out of oxygen. It's hard enough saving their lives as is but when you purposely say you don't want outside help only to figure out later that you needed it all along because your technology stinks...well...that is inexcusable. Oh...excuse me...I think the words were "we are not refusing help" but you certainly didn't want it either...duh. Is that statement supposed to be so you can get off the hook later? I am so glad I don't live in Russia.

    Sure, they care...they care more about what they are trying to hide from the outside world than they do about their own Russian people. How many different crock stories about what happened do we have to hear? I'm sure they would have loved to have blamed us for the submarine accident! As long as they can shift the blame away from the military and political machine. Umm...yeah...that's the ticket...it was a UFO that ran into our submarine. It wasn't our fault. We didn't cut the budget or cause this. Blame anyone but us.

    The simple fact of the matter is they should have accepted the assistance from other countries first thing. It may not have helped but the chances are better than waiting till Saturday now. What do they think we are going to find out? That nukes really are aboard their submarine, that Russian sailors are going to talk, that they were testing out some new technology? I think we could care less...America has the best technology in the world. This should have been about saving lives...but instead turned into a political sham. Putin's own people will hold him directly accountable and I doubt he will last long in power. Hope you enjoyed your vacation, Putin! I feel for the citizens of Russia because they have so much crap to put up with.

    What a tragedy! These are human beings being played as pawns in a political game of chess.

    Surf

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  2. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    They should have a better contengency plan. I can see them not wanting help, but they should have asked for help to be ready in case they needed it.

    The Russians have always treated their soldiers as pawns. They are nearly an unlimited resource for their army.

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    "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
     
  3. insideout

    insideout Contributing Member

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    there was an msnbc cover story on this...

    that the US also refused help from Russia in the western forest fires in Montana.. that Russia offerred her planes, which has the largest capacity out of all planes in the world to fight fire, but the US said "we'll think about it" and refused.. just think.. maybe the fires could have at least subsided if we didn't refuse their help.. just goes to show that idiocy is on both sides of the atlantic.

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    barkley for president
     
  4. Surfguy

    Surfguy Contributing Member

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    if their turnaround time on helping out is anything like their turnaround time on getting their critical module of the space station launched, then I can understand why we turned them down [​IMG]. We'd all be burnt out by the time they proceeded.

    Surf

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  5. dc sports

    dc sports Member

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    The US and Great Britian learned very early how dangerous running a submarine program was due to a couple of accidents, most notably the Thresher, which suffered an accident in which all hands were lost. They also were afraid of public pressure regarding nuclear power of the machines -- knowing one accident would could mean the end of the submarine program.

    Both have developed fanatical safety and rescue programs -- the US has a full training facility dedicated to submarine emergency simulations including firefighting, rescue, and damage control.

    The programs include (and this might have changed some) two US and one GB rescue subs capable of being airlifted to anywhere in the world, then piggybacked in on a ship or other submarine, and rescuing sailors from any NATO sub at any depth the big subs would go.

    They also have survival escape suits, which can be charged with several minutes of air off an air supply off the sub, allowing the sailors to float up from the sub on their own. Since it's not uncommon for recreational divers to down to 150 feet, I don't think 300 feet would be a problem for these suits -- provided someone can fish them out of the artic seas when they surface. (Of course, I've only been to 100, in the summer, in a murky lake, and it was scary.)

    Russia / USSR followed a very different approach. Since the government controlled the press, and the sailors didn't have much say, safety took a backseat. In fact, one of the reasons that Soviet Built attack subs are much faster than equivalent US ships is that they are lighter -- they don't waste all that weight on unnecessary stuff like redundant life support / damage control, or reactor shielding.

    This had to happen eventually. Russia has entered the world, and been exposed to a much more aggressive and capable world press. Their submarine safety is abismal, but they couldn't admit how inadequite their equipment is. They know this will leave a black eye, and yet they still can't bring themselves to ask for help.

    Also notable is their sheer arrogance in not taking the simple measure of using hatches built to "western" standards -- Even on their newer subs. The same hatches are used by every other builder of submarines in the world, for the specific reason of being compatible with anyone's rescue sub -- so that the closest one can assist, regardless of the country.

    It's really sad. Especially since the sailors had a chance -- 300 feet isn't that deep for a submarine.

    It will also kill the morale of their navy (further), because they are failing to follow one of the most basic rules of military, forces, and people -- do everything you can to save your comerades. This is going to have reprecussions through their armed forces , and their society, where everyone spends time in the armed forces.


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  6. Puedlfor

    Puedlfor Contributing Member

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    It was once said that the best weapon in Russia's arsenal was their soldiers own chest. This disregard for life is nothing new.

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    Who would've thought Don Nelson would pass up Olumide Oyedeji not once, not twice, but thrice?
     

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