Russia: We will attack Poland if US puts Muissle Defense System there

They're utilizing the Stalin Turnpike. The traffic straight through downtown backs up during rush hour.

 

I'm guessing it increases relations between US and Poland.

 

Actually the Russians killed a bunch of the hostages when they used gas in a rescue attempt.

 

Now you are the master of objectivity?



I guess I must have misread like everything you've ever posted.

 

Oh well. Don't be grumpy. I guess you just are looking for an internet tussle.

Still glad to see we agree that the latest US moves in Poland don't benefit the US.

BTW since you say the US gained nothing in Poland. Did we gain a lot by placing missiles and expanding NATO into other Eastern Euro countries?

 

Aw... That's very cute. Glynchie is getting feisty.

Perhaps if you actually knew before this thread started that Poland joined NATO more than a decade ago, I might think there is something productive to discuss here. As it is, I don't. You pick up a subject you apparently don't know anything about and immediately assume that the fault lies entirely with the USA. Color me not surprised.

Maybe if you had payed attention back then, you might know why Poland wanted to join NATO, and why the rest of NATO decided to let them in.

 

Well, you are right. I got Poland mixed up with Ukraine wrt to a current push for NATO membership.. Congratulations. I guess that that means I don't know anything about Russian-US relations and you know everything.

This fact error in your mind seems to mean that you have no reason to comment on whether the expansion of NATO into Poland and other countries has helped the US or aided US-Russian relations. No need to address the opinion of such hate American first types like Kennan, Nunn and Friedman.

 

Imagine:

The USA had just invaded Cuba.

After Russia installs a missile shield in Venezuela, the USA threatens to nuke Venezuela.

With that background, come up with a single realistic instance where you would excuse America’s actions because of Russian provocation.

No matter what, if that situation played out, you would be on this BBS ranting against the neocons and Bush, unless you had suffered a stroke upon hearing the news and were lying in a hospital bed somewhere.

If you wouldn’t excuse the USA for those actions, no matter the provocation, why do you do it when the situations are reversed and it is Russia?

 

I tried working with your example, but it is too one sided and simplistic. Cuba attacks the disputed province of Guantanamo in a sneak attack that kills American soldiers. The US responds by retaking Guantanamo and then goes into Cuba proper for awhile. --nevermind.
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1) I have not excused Russia for threatening to attack Poland either by conventional or nuclear means. Are you sure it threatened to nuke Poland?

2) I don't excuse Russia for invading Georgia proper.

3) I do think that after the first attack by Georgia that killed Russian troops and ethnic Russians it was understandable that Russia fought back.in South Ossetia. Given that a clear majority of the South Ossetians would rather be part of Russia than part of Georgia it is also somewhat understandable that Russia decided to do what the US and allies did in Kosovo and essentially annex S. Ossetia or insure it never reverts to Georgia.

4) It does not follow that because of the very specific facts in South Ossetia-Georgia that Russia is trying to restart the Soviet Union.


4) The US as we both agreed gained little by the agreement to put the missiles in Poland, but knew it would be very provocative to Russia , so why do it? It was especially unhelpful to push for it a few days after the tensions in Gerogia.

5) I still maintain along with a number of folks who are not viewed as big leftists that the US restarted the Cold War first and there was a great missed opportunity to have better relations with Russia. Hopefully there still is time.

I view our actions toward Russia as sort of like the misguided over-punishment of Germany for WW I. I don't expect such catastrophic results, but in my mind we are likely to be wasting a few trillion on a new cold war. With the needs both in the US, Russia and the rest of the world this is a tragic moral blunder.