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[Russia] Downed Plane In Sinai Due To Bomb, Allies With France

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Cohete Rojo, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Surprised there wasn't a thread about the Russian airline crash in this forum. Racism?

    [rQUOTEr]Russia Allies With France Against ISIS, Saying Jet That Crashed in Sinai Was Bombed

    MOSCOW — Russia on Tuesday said that it was coordinating with the French military in sharply ratcheting up attacks on Syrian territory, especially areas held by the Islamic State, as the government for the first time acknowledged that a bomb had destroyed a Russian charter jet that crashed more than two weeks ago in Egypt.

    In a related move, President Obama said early Wednesday that he was open to cooperating with Russia in the campaign against the Islamic State, which has asserted responsibility for destroying the charter plane and for the deadly attacks in Paris on Friday, but only if the government of President Vladimir V. Putin begins targeting the militant group.

    The timing of the Kremlin’s announcement on Tuesday, after France had already begun striking Islamic State targets and had called for a united front against the group, suggested that Russia was using the moment to help repair frayed relations with the West.

    The Kremlin also announced that Mr. Putin and his French counterpart, François Hollande, had spoken by telephone, had agreed to coordinate military attacks in Syria and would meet on Nov. 26 in Moscow.

    In a military briefing for Mr. Putin and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, which was televised live nationwide, it was announced that Russia had deployed cruise missiles, long-range bombers and other warplanes.

    “A massive airstrike is targeting ISIL sites in Syrian territory,” Mr. Shoigu said, using one of the acronyms for the Islamic State. “The number of sorties has been doubled, which makes it possible to deliver powerful pinpoint strikes upon ISIL fighters all throughout the Syrian territory.”

    Mr. Putin and his defense chief were shown sitting in a three-story military command center with a map of Syria the size of a movie screen on one wall. In a scene that could have been lifted from a James Bond film, scores of military men, many wearing headsets, were lined up in desks on the main floor and overhead balconies, all facing the screen.

    A pariah in Western leadership circles since his invasion of Crimea last year and his support of separatists in eastern Ukraine, Mr. Putin was suddenly front and center at the Group of 20 summit meeting this week in Antalya, Turkey. For Mr. Putin, ending the diplomatic isolation could be an important first step in persuading the West to lift sanctions on his wobbly economy imposed because of the Ukraine dispute.

    Speaking after a meeting with President Benigno S. Aquino III of the Philippines, Mr. Obama, who was in Manila for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit meeting, said he had had “repeated discussions” with Mr. Putin about the two militaries working more closely together.

    “The problem has been in their initial military incursion into Syria, they have been more focused on propping up President Assad,” Mr. Obama said, adding that “If in fact he shifts his focus and the focus of his military, to what is the principal threat, which is ISIL, then that is what we want to see.”

    Mr. Obama’s comments are the most direct indication that the United States is prepared to work with Russia to counter the Islamic State, which is also known as ISIS, ISIL or Daesh.

    The president suggested that American officials remained skeptical about whether Mr. Putin would shift his focus toward the terrorist group, even in the wake of the Paris attacks.

    But he said that the Russians have been “a constructive partner” during diplomatic talks in Vienna last week, where foreign ministers agreed to a path to a cease-fire in Syria and an eventual political transition.

    Mr. Obama added that there was a “catch” to that cooperative spirit, saying that “Moscow is still interested in keeping Assad in power.”

    He said, however, that “those differences have not prevented us at looking at how could we set up a cease-fire.”

    Alexander V. Bortnikov, the head of Russia’s Federal Security Service, said investigators estimated that the bomb that brought down the Metrojet Airbus A321, killing all 224 people aboard, was made of up to 1 kilogram, or 2.2 pounds, of TNT. He added that “foreign made” explosive material had been found in the wreckage.

    In remarks to Russia’s Security Council on Monday and broadcast on Tuesday morning, he said that “we can say definitely that this was a terrorist act.”

    An “improvised explosive device” detonated soon after the plane took off, Mr. Bortnikov said, adding that “the plane disintegrated in midair, which explains the widely scattered fuselage pieces.”

    Egyptian officials have repeatedly asserted that it was premature to conclude that an act of sabotage had destroyed the Russian jetliner, with some saying such an explanation was part of an international conspiracy against their country. But Egypt’s position has become harder to maintain in recent days as the Russian government, one of its closest allies, gave increasing indications that it believed a bomb was the most likely cause. The Russians moved to sever almost all air connections with Egypt.

    The plane crashed minutes after departing Sharm el Sheikh, a Red Sea resort now reeling from a loss of the tourism. Russia’s confirmation that the plane was felled by a bomb — presumably smuggled through the Sharm el Sheikh airport — could further weaken Egypt’s vital tourism industry, and undermines government claims of progress in vanquishing militants based in Sinai.

    On Tuesday, after hours of silence following the Russian announcement, Egyptian officials seemed to be gingerly walking back their denials. Egypt’s civil aviation minister said the committee investigating the crash had “not arrived at any criminal evidence,” but a statement from the Interior Ministry included the possibility of a “terrorist attack,” while announcing enhanced security measures at airports.

    “This is the first time that the Egyptian authorities admit the possibility that whatever happened to the Russian plane was a terrorist attack,” said Mustapha Kamel al-Sayyid, a political science professor at Cairo University and the American University in Cairo. While the change was “not easy” for the Egyptian government, he said, it appeared to reflect an attempt to avoid a rift with the Russians.

    The Russians did not acknowledge that the Islamic State had planted the bomb. But the Russian attacks that followed on parts of Syria held by the Islamic State, presented in the live television briefing, left no doubt that the Russians were intent on showing they blamed the group.

    Russia fired 34 cruise missiles from the eastern Mediterranean, hitting more than a dozen targets in Aleppo and Idlib, said Gen. Valery Gerasimov, the Russian military’s chief of staff.

    Military aircraft, including long-range bombers flying from Russia, flew 127 sorties, hitting 266 targets and destroying 140, the defense minister said. The Russian Air Force deployed in Syria has flown almost 2,300 combat missions since the attacks started 48 days ago, General Gerasimov said.

    “We will search for them everywhere, no matter where they are hiding,” Mr. Putin said at a meeting with his security council broadcast on television. “We will find them in any place on the planet and will punish them.”[/rQUOTEr]
     
  2. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני
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    More people died in the airplane explosion than in Paris (or Beirut), but I'm pretty sure 'Russian' isn't a race.
     
  3. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    If ISIS is behind this attack, that is nearly 600 death attributed to ISIS terrorist attacks since the Turkey bombings (if those too are ISIS). Obama can no longer call them the JV, but I still think the best strategy for the US is to do nothing - as the US already meddled enough by attacking Iraq the first time around.

    [rQUOTEr]Islamic State says 'Schweppes bomb' used to bring down Russian plane

    [​IMG]

    Islamic State's official magazine carried a photo on Wednesday of a Schweppes soft drink can it said was used to make an improvised bomb that brought down a Russian airliner over Egypt's Sinai Peninsula last month, killing all 224 people on board.

    The photo showed a can of Schweppes Gold soft drink and what appeared to be a detonator and switch on a blue background, three simple components that if genuine are likely to cause concern for airline safety officials worldwide.

    "The divided Crusaders of the East and West thought themselves safe in their jets as they cowardly bombarded the Muslims of the Caliphate," the English language Dabiq magazine said in reference to Russia and the West. "And so revenge was exacted upon those who felt safe in the cockpits."

    Western governments have said the Airbus A321 operated by Metrojet was likely brought down by a bomb and Moscow confirmed on Tuesday it had reached the same conclusion, but the Egyptian government said it has still not found evidence of criminal action.

    Explosives experts said it was feasible the device shown in the photo could bring down a plane, depending on where it was located and the density of explosives in the soft drink can. The most vulnerable locations include the fuel line, the cockpit or anywhere close to the fuselage skin.

    "The placement is the critical thing," said Jimmie Oxley, a professor of chemistry who specializes in explosives at the University of Rhode Island.

    Oxley and other experts drew parallels with the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 by Libyan nationals over the Scottish town of Lockerbie in 1988. An investigation showed a palm-sized explosive in a cassette recorder in a bag in the luggage hold had ripped a 50 centimeter hole in the fuselage and decompression caused the plane to break up in mid-air.

    The apparent similarities, the detonator and switch suggested the soda can device was on a timer, rather than operated by a suicide bomber, suggested a similar chain of events on the Russian airliner, some experts said.

    However, Clive Williams, a professor at the Australian National University's Centre for Military and Security Law and a member of the International Association of Bomb Technicians and Investigators, said the use of a soda can raised questions about whether the device was included in the catering supply.

    Experts added that the photo could also provide a key clue in tracking Islamic State as the detonator pictured was a commercial one, which could be traced back to its manufacturer.

    "TERRORIST ACTIVITY"

    State Department spokesman John Kirby said on Wednesday the U.S. government was not in a position to confirm "the veracity" of the magazine's claim.

    "We do believe that terrorist activity is likely the reason," he said, referring to the crash.

    Islamic State also published a photo of what it said were passports belonging to dead Russians "obtained by the mujahideen". It was not immediately possible to verify the authenticity of the published photos.

    The group, which has seized large swathes of Syria and Iraq, said it had exploited a loophole at Sharm al-Sheikh airport, where the plane originated, in order to smuggle a bomb on board.

    The airport is widely used by budget and charter airlines to fly tourists to the nearby resorts on the Sinai coast.

    Islamic State said it had initially planned to bring down a plane belonging to a country participating in the U.S.-led coalition bombing it in Syria and Iraq, but it changed course after Moscow started its own air strikes campaign in Syria.

    "A bomb was smuggled onto the airplane, leading to the deaths of 219 Russians and five other crusaders only a month after Russia's thoughtless decision," it said.

    Egypt's interior minister told a news conference in Sharm al-Sheikh on Tuesday that there was "no information" about security lapses at the airport.

    Islamic State's Egyptian branch, Sinai Province, claimed responsibility for the attack the day it happened but Egyptian officials were quick to dismiss talk of a bomb as premature.

    NO SAFETY IN MUSLIM LANDS

    Egypt is battling an Islamist insurgency in the Sinai, a strategic peninsula bordering Israel, Gaza and the Suez Canal. But Islamic State said the airline attack was primarily planned as a response to Russian and Western air strikes.

    "This was to show the Russians and whoever allies with them that they will have no safety in the lands and airspace of the Muslims," the group wrote.

    Russia, an ally of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, launched air strikes against opposition groups in Syria including Islamic State, on Sept. 30.

    The downed aircraft had been carrying Russian holidaymakers from the Egyptian resort to St Petersburg when it broke up over Sinai.

    On Tuesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin vowed to hunt down those responsible and offered a $50 million reward for information leading to the perpetrators.

    "We will find them anywhere on the planet and punish them," Putin said at a somber Kremlin meeting.

    Alexander Bortnikov, the head of Russia's FSB security service, said traces of foreign-made explosive had been found on fragments of the downed plane and on passengers' personal belongings. He said the bomb probably contained around 1 kilogram (2.2 pounds) of TNT.

    [/rQUOTEr]
     
  4. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    <iframe height="288" width="512" src="http://www.reuters.com/assets/iframe/yovideo?videoId=366403575"></iframe>
     
  5. cebu

    cebu Member

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    same teqhnique used in Homeland movie.
     
  6. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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  7. MiddleMan

    MiddleMan Contributing Member

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    From what I read, Turkey is pro-ISIS killing Kurds that are defeating ISIS and Turkey is buying oil from the terrorist. So it makes sense for Turkey to shoot down Russian fighter jet because Russia is defeating their funded rebels or terrorist in Syria.
     
  8. The Stig

    The Stig Member

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    I really want this whole mess to be a huge misunderstanding between Russia and the West but the more I read, the more skeptical I am over this.
     
  9. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    It also makes sense because the Russians have, well, a reputation for disregarding national boundaries to the detriment of the host nation.

    A pox on both houses really, but it'll be amusing to see neocons who were all aghast about Russia bringing down passenger jets and funding rebel groups get salty at Turkey for bringing down a military jet and funding rebel groups. To give Turkey some credit, they didn't pussyfoot around what they did.
     
  10. JeopardE

    JeopardE Contributing Member

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    It's very hard to trust Russia's word over another country's, but I think the Erdogan and the Turks are a bunch of two-timing weasels. The evidence suggests that Turkey has no problem with letting ISIS operate as long as they help them fight the Kurdish rebels. Lots of news reports on the down low about high-ranking Turkish officials even engaging in major oil deals with ISIS. ISIS oil trucks traverse the Syria-Turkey border with ease and no interference.

    Turkey is using the cover of NATO membership to pretend to the world that they are on the good side. It would appear that they are not, and this looks like a wanton act of aggression. And then you see things like this -->

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If this is really the trace of the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Russian?src=hash">#Russian</a> jet - it shows it traversed <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Turkey?src=hash">#Turkey</a> for 1.24 miles. About 12 seconds. <a href="https://t.co/aKHZS8G6A9">pic.twitter.com/aKHZS8G6A9</a></p>&mdash; James Blatch (@JamesBlatch) <a href="https://twitter.com/JamesBlatch/status/669123679104720897">November 24, 2015</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

    At least we know what Russia's intentions are. Turkey -- they could end up being a greater threat to world peace than Iran ever was.
     
  11. davidio840

    davidio840 Contributing Member

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  12. krnxsnoopy

    krnxsnoopy Contributing Member

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    So basically, this is Kurds vs Shia vs Sunni right?

    Saudi financial backing + Isis = Sunni
    Assad + Iran = Shia

    On the other hand, Turkey doesn't want a Kurdish State.
     
  13. sew

    sew Member

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    So, they gunned down the two pilots as they were parachuting? That seems really ****ed up.
     
  14. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    this is Syria, where Assad has been dropping barrel bombs on civilians for 4 years running and creating a mass torture/murder network while rebel groups oscillate between burning pilot prisoners alive and crucifying residents. It's honestly probably the least f**ked up thing that's happened there for years. The place is nihilist to its core, at this rate, the fact the pilots died probably spared them a horrible fate.
     
  15. MiddleMan

    MiddleMan Contributing Member

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    Now is the time for the world to see Russia's response to Turkeys actions. I don't expect Putin to run and hide with his tail between its legs. It's show up or just up for Russia.
     
  16. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    My standard for behavior is much, much higher for Turkey (as the NATO member, as the 'secular Muslim nation,' as the aspiring Euro member) than it is for Syria, for ISIS, or for Russia.
     
  17. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Who or what do you see as the good side?

    I find the whole Syrian war similar to Stalin vs Hitler. Not because of the magnitude but because neither side is really a winner and there are a lot of small people in the way who are getting **** on.
     
  18. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Northside's posting can be summarized in two ways:
    1) Trying desperately to prove others are hypocrites (what I call "Jon Stewart" humor)

    2) Trying to prove to others how much he knows about something. Which usually is limited to what he finds on lefty websites.
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    It was Turkmen rebels on the ground who killed the Russian pilots, not Turkish army forces.

    The same rebels (who are not ISIS) whose villages Russia has been bombing for quite a while, fwiw.
     
  20. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    aww thanks Texxx. :)

    your posting can be summarized in one way:

    dry, needs a bit of hummus
     

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