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Rush Limbaugh says fiction character "James Bond" can't be black

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by leroy, Dec 24, 2014.

  1. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    I like him, but he isn't James Bond (then again, I thought Craig was a bad choice, and couldn't have been more wrong).

    One of his biggest weaknesses is age. Craig is going to be in the next 2 Bond films , and Idris Elba could be pushing 50 by the one after that. I think they'd want someone a little younger that would last in the role longer.
     
  2. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bond

    "Fleming decided that Bond should resemble both American singer Hoagy Carmichael and himself[6] and in Casino Royale, Vesper Lynd remarks, "Bond reminds me rather of Hoagy Carmichael, but there is something cold and ruthless." Likewise, in Moonraker, Special Branch Officer Gala Brand thinks that Bond is "certainly good-looking ... Rather like Hoagy Carmichael in a way. That black hair falling down over the right eyebrow. Much the same bones. But there was something a bit cruel in the mouth, and the eyes were cold."[6]

    Fleming also endowed Bond with many of his own traits, including sharing the same golf handicap, the taste for scrambled eggs and using the same brand of toiletries.[7] Bond's tastes are also often taken from Fleming's own as was his behaviour,[8] with Bond's love of golf and gambling mirroring Fleming's own. Fleming used his experiences of his espionage career and all other aspects of his life as inspiration when writing, including using names of school friends, acquaintances, relatives and lovers throughout his books.[1]

    It was not until the penultimate novel, You Only Live Twice, that Fleming gave Bond a sense of family background. The book was the first to be written after the release of Dr. No in cinemas and Sean Connery's depiction of Bond affected Fleming's interpretation of the character, to give Bond both a sense of humour and Scottish antecedents that were not present in the previous stories.[9] In a fictional obituary, purportedly published in The Times, Bond's parents were given as Andrew Bond, from the village of Glencoe, Scotland, and Monique Delacroix, from the canton of Vaud, Switzerland.[10] Fleming did not provide Bond's date of birth, but John Pearson's fictional biography of Bond, James Bond: The Authorized Biography of 007, gives Bond a birth date on 11 November 1920,[11] while a study by John Griswold puts the date at 11 November 1921.[12]"

    The Bond stories have advanced since 1953; he even had a cell phone in one movie. A black Bond will be an interesting path for the series to take but it is understandable when people act surprised about it. It's a big leap from the fifty year Bond tradition that people have loved.
     
  3. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    Bond wasn't well loved around the world because he was white
     
  4. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    My understanding is book James Bond was basically one of the characters out of Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy - very low key. He wasn't anything like the womanizing hyper-sexed macho pimp that Sean Connery was, beyond the fact that he liked to drink.

    So if you really want to be true to the character as designed by Flemming, you should be livid if it is anybody but Gary Oldham, or maybe Benedict Cumberbatch. Certainly never a pro bodybuilder like Sean Connery was in the early 60's.
     
    #104 Ottomaton, Dec 28, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
  5. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    What percentage of the people outraged over this do you think are aware of this tidbit?

    Bond is not a cultural icon because of the Ian Fleming novels. Its because of the movies. And in the movies, his "whiteness" was never brought up in any of the stories as far as I can remember.
     
  6. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    No but in our experience Bond was white and he was loved. He has been white for over fifty years and for all of our lives.

    You see how my mere suggestion of a white Shaft went over? Same phenomenon.

    Doesn't mean it CAN'T be done. People don't like their icons being budged like that.... but it's not racist.
     
  7. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    Bond's "whiteness" is all we've seen for fifty years... it didn't have to be brought up as it was plainly visible.
     
  8. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    It's plain visibility is much more of an issue for some people than others. Did it upset you as much that Daniel Craig is blond?

    Btw, Sean Connery never had that hair hanging down over his eye, either.
     
    #108 Ottomaton, Dec 28, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
  9. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
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    Your mention of a white Shaft went over poorly because it was stupid. Shaft is supposed to be a black character as has been pointed out multiple times. You're just obtuse, as usual.
     
  10. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    No. I dug that up to overturn the notion that Bond was just a blank canvas. As a character, he came from a place and had a look.

    As I said, if a character who first came to life in the fifties and sixties can have a cell phone then he can have black skin. That doesn't mean it won't take some getting used to.

    Icons are iconic.
     
  11. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    And Bond was supposed to be, and was, white. For 50 years. Ask Fleming. Ask Broccoli.

    So what is your point... other than taking an over-zealous opportunity to knock me?

    Stop being a punk. Your idiocy aside, I have no problem with a black Bond. I understand the pushback though because this is a major shift in a character people have loved and they don't like changes.
     
  12. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
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    There is nothing that is specific to Bond being white as inherent to the character of James Bond. Any British speaking man or woman could play Bond and it doesn't change anything about the character, nothing. The character of James Bond is a British secret service agent not a white British secret service agent.

    You could have literally picked a hundred other roles played by a black actor other than Shaft to make your point but you actually chose one that is black by design. LOL Hilarious.

    You're just being your usual argumentative, obtuse self.
     
  13. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Final thought:

    It's going to be a bigger issue the older you are, and it's going to be a much bigger issue with Americans than Brits.

    If you really wanted to piss off people in the UK, you'd need to make him a South Asian Muslim.

    Edit: How about Tom Hardy as Bond if you want another thug like Craig?
     
    #113 Ottomaton, Dec 28, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
  14. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    Fifty years of tradition is standing in the way.

    I chose Shaft because it was iconic like Bond. Anything can be changed...
     
  15. JeffB

    JeffB Contributing Member

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    Is Shaft really the best you can up with? If so, then consider yourself losing this argument. If anything, Shaft is an argument for why Elba should be Bond. Shaft isn't sacred to black folks.

    Shaft =/= Bond. Shady is closely tied to a race due to his position as an anti-white supremacy figure. The character would actually translate if you made him/her a member of an exploited class/caste in another country. As long as he is anti-The Man and seeks his own justice, Shaft translates, warts and all.

    As far as I can tell, times change and people change. If Brits only care that their best British actors regardless of color play Bond, then Amercans can just step aside from race-baiting and the white supremacist agenda and just suck it up.
     
  16. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    Yes, any detail can be changed to make the story work. My example, Shaft, was meant to be stark.
     
  17. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Contributing Member

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    My one comment on Fassbender is this.

    He's better than you. He's a cut above. If there could be said to be a character flaw to Fassbender, it would be his ruthlessness. He is the kind of man who dedicates himself to something, who is willing to die for it.

    When it comes to moviemaking, there are few better chisels in your toolbox to pull out than a Fassbender. You admire a guy like that. You fear a guy like that. You can exalt him, despise him, pity him, even empathize with him.

    But you cannot sympathize with him. Nobody looks at Fassbender and says, "Moi aussi!" In that sense he's a bit of an Alain Delon of this era. Whereas for James Bond I feel like we are searching more for the next Belmondo. The narcissist that we can all adore and forgive. But maybe that's just my impression of the Bond tradition having watched Connery, Roger Moore, Brosnan etc. Craig was certainly different. I just don't think anyone would be prepared for the Bond they would receive were Fassbender to play the part. We would start rooting for the villain.
     
  18. HouStu_Rocket

    HouStu_Rocket Member

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    I think Channing Tatum as the next Shaft.

    In all seriousness - it doesn't matter - however- accurately portraying the character helps preserve the lore of the character but for entertainment purposes (as what I assuming they are targeting) it doesn't really make a difference
     
  19. Kyakko

    Kyakko Contributing Member

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    I want to see a realistic Bond... a middle-aged balding man who works in upper middle management as a computer analysis at government research lab.
     
  20. rocket3forlife2

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    This makes a lot of sense...I'm black but even I was a little skeptical at first, but I do think Idris Elba could pull it off.
     

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