[RUMOR] Carr to Dolphins for Ricky Williams and 3rd round pick

nice long posts. It wasn't until I scrolled up that I finally remembered what the thread was all about. Overall, great derailing, but the posts are very well thought out.

I'm torn between VY and Bush, and frankly,I don't mind if they trade down for a 1st round (5-8) pick and get a nice package. I feel that VY coming out actually devalued the pick somewhat. Sure, there are more choices for the #1, but it's no longer the bonifide pick with so many players available.

Frankly, I'm still leaning towards Bush, but VY's attitude is one that the Texans sorely needed. He's direct and I love the little time he spends going through his progressions. That 4th down play where he looked off 2-3 receivers and ran with the ball will save him from lots of sacks. I just don't like how Carr seemingly locks on a receiver, which is probably one of the major causes of him not having great pocket presence. At any rate, I hope the Texans make the right choice this time, as I still do trust their evaluations over mine, although I do have my own opinions.

 

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/

 

Interesting, Ricky and a first for Carr?

 

This makes even that much better. I was okay with Ricky and a 2nd now it's a 1st, I would definitely do it.

Think about this:

Vince Young
Ricky Williams (making the minimum)
1st Round Pick (OT - Scott, McNeil, Winston)
2nd round (TE - Byrd)
2 3rd picks (OT, LB)

And honestly, with the way Ricky finished last season (last 2 games 270 yards rushing), I think he would flourish here helping out DD. Both him and DD would be a lot fresher (this is especially good for DD so he doesn't break down like he usually does) so I could see Ricky/DD each with 7-800 yards rushing each.

C'mon Saban, do it.

 

hoang, the article say a 2007 first rounder, that would be next year.

 

Oh, haha, yeah sorry I read through the exercpt a little too fast.

Hmm... '07 1st Rounder, I don't know..especially with this draft being so deep in each position (except WR). Our 2 most pressing needs on this offense is TE and OL and this draft is definitely deep in these 2 areas.

I think I would rather get a 2nd this year instead of a 1st next year. The 2nd this year would be mid 2nd. Yeah, get the 2nd Casserly.

 

Good posts by both Scar and Da Man. My only question concerning Bush is his ability (or willingness) to run between the tackles. He's a good enough athlete to be a workhorse in the league, his one "bad" game still consisted of 172 yards of offense.

As Scar pointed out, Bush runs for the corner everytime, which obviously worked since he was hands down faster than any defender on the field. I think the RB game showed that if you contain the corners, you can stop Bush quite easily. I've seen a lot of USC games this season and I can probably count on one hand how many times Bush ran between the tackles, this is probably by design as well, but Bush's run game is almost all about beating the defenders to the sideline.

 

Being an Austinite and a subscriber to the Statesman, I can honestly tell you to take anything Kirk Bohls says with a grain of salt. He is constantly wrong about things, especially when it comes to pro sports. He is probably reporting this from the same rumor that started this thread. The only difference is that it has apparently grown into Ricky and a 1st rounder. I just don't see it happening like this. I can see Miami being interested in Carr. I would have to think that it's more like Carr for Ricky and a 3rd or 4th round pick.

 

This is my thinking in regards to Bush running for the corners. He averaged 8.7 yards per carry last year. If you can average 8.7 yards per carry, obviously the opposing defense can't stop you. Why run it between the tackles in college?

It's like telling Shaq at LSU to not take it down low, and instead show a perimeter game. If you are unstoppable in the low blocks, stay in the low blocks. If you are unstoppable running outside the tackles, keep running outside the tackles until you are proven otherwise. They said Grant Hill couldn't succeed in the pros until he developed the ability to shoot from the perimeter and drive left. The guy consistently drove right in the NBA to perennial All-Star status. Priest Holmes has made a terrific living in the NFL running toss sweeps. I think when Reggie Bush is given a chance at the next level, he will be able to show his versatile running game. The guy is compact and strong, benching north of 400 lbs. Time will tell in regards to his toughness and durability.

I can't get past 8.7 yards per carry. The last guy I can remember a guy rushing for north of 1600 yards with an rushing average that high is Barry Sanders (of course he did rushing for 2300 yards in 1988). 8.7 ypc is ridiculous nonetheless!

 

Da Man is Da Man!

Great posts.

 

It is amazing, but they were not playing even competition, a lot of those games the other teams defense was really bad.

Not to mention the USC line was amazing, and allowed him to go untouched a lot of the time.

He will not have that line luxury if he comes to the Texans.

Bush is an amazingly fast guy, but I just don't see him as a featured back, he was not the main guy at USC, though they had a dirth of talent.

I just see Vince as a game changer and a team leader, both of which the Texans SORELY need.

Can you be a leader at RB, sure...but QB is a more natural position for team leader....and Vince is every bit as eye popping as Reggie.

DD

 

Really bad defense? Kinda like USCs? (rose bowl). Ok. State, Texas A&M (ranked LAST!!!). Before the Rose Bowl, the consensus was that USC defense was horrible. So lets attribute VY's number to that.

How about the Texas offensive line? Also Amazing. Correct?

Neither will VY.

Not a featured back? Why not, not big enough? At 6'0 200lbs i'd say he's plenty big, especially compared to featured backs like Warrick Dunn, Tiki Barber, and Curtis Martin. Oh yeah and Barry Sanders and Marcus Allen. He was not the main guy at USC because they had another 1st rd NFL running back on their team, had to split carries or else you are ruining Lyndell White's chanced at the NFL. Bush could have been the main guy no doubt about it. He had more carries than White did this year, so how was he not the main guy?

Bush got 8.7 yards per carry because the defenses he played were bad. I guess they won 34 games in a row because they just played bad teams as well.

 

Yes, that's pretty much exactly what it is.

 

Both USC and UT played mostly bad teams....MOSTLY......thus their stats are indeed inflated.

DD

 

He had 3 more carries than White this year. It was basically as close to splitting time as you could come. Their freshman and sophomore years (when they one their 1.5 championships), White had significantly more carries.

Certainly. In terms of YPC, their are actually some similarities between Ramonce Taylor/Jamaal Charles and Reggie Bush/LenDale White in their underclassmen years. The question will be if they can keep that up as their work loads increase (and if JC can avoid injuries) and make the leap. But as much as I like the UT line, that USC line was something else.

But what's relevant here, is VY is incredibly poised in the pocket, and extremely comfortable making plays out of the pocket. He also alleviates pressure on the line - his ability to hurt you if you blitz him makes opposing defenses more hesitant to flush him out of the pocket. Our O-Line woes are well documented, and teams look to attack it. We need an O-Line to protect our QB no matter who it is, but if you have a special athlete back there like Young, the line can focus on picking up the D-Line rather than worrying about a blitz package every down.

 

it will definately take some outside-the-box thinking to maximize vy's talents in the nfl, no doubt, but the offense should dictate the action. the defense has to match up with vy, not the other way around.

 

I agree. When your biggest challenges before the Rose Bowl are the current Notre Dame, Fresno St. and Texas Tech, OU...

Oh wait...

But I agree.

 

Looking at win/loss records and esp. bowl results, I think the Big 12 was stronger than most realized this year. Did any conference appear that much stronger than the Big 12? I don't think so.

And there's no doubt that Big 12 D's are way better than Pac10s.

 

Texas played 8 bowl eligible teams during the regular season of those 7 were selected and posted a record of 4-3.

USC played 6 bowl eligible teams during the regular season of those 6 were selected and posted a record of 3-3.

There is a reason UT's SOS ranking was higher and they were higher in the computers as a result even going into that game.

 

Why is everytime somebody suggests what flaws Bush has, you have to apply it to Vince as well? Does it make what he says any less true? He's trying to make a point and alll you're doing is, "well Vince Young doesn't have it that hard either"

I mean, is it NOT true that Bush makes all his spectacular plays bouncing outside the tackles? And is NOT true that in the NFL, everybody is a lot faster? HOw about the fact that he only got 13 carries in the national championship game and 3 more carries overall on the season compared to Lendale White? These are all assessments made on facts, not just opinions.

One thing, and there is no doubt about it, that separates Vince from Bush is Vince's Will and Determination. You can knock on his throwing motion or the fact that he's not going to be able to run in the NFL; I don't care. What I do know and you can take it to the bank on this is that he's going to find a way to succeed in the next level.

At Madison, people said that he couldn't hack it. When he got to Austin, people said he's just a wide receiver playing the QB position. Just like in the past, Vince is going to prove everybody wrong, and I want him to be a Texan when he does it.