[RUMOR] Carr to Dolphins for Ricky Williams and 3rd round pick

did u see ricky run without splitting time with ronnie brown in week 16?


172 yards

 

Less redundant than the Houston Texans.

 

Hey, we could almost keep the same logo!

 

Perhaps you don't remember Harold "baby Jordan" Minor...

 

Hey, he won a dunk contest or two!

 

It was a nickname. Harold Minor was drafted 13th in the 1992 draft, so it wasn't like the scouts/experts perceived him being the next Jordan. It was only stupid a certain group of unknowledgable fans (i.e. Houston Rockets' fans) that viewed him in such a light. Harold Minor instead of Robert Horry. That would have worked out real well.

 

lets sign Mack Brown, Limas Sweed, Seldom Young, Roy Williams (11), and David Thomas. Is Cedric Benson, Quentin Jammer, Michael Huff also available?

 

LMAO!! I just stop laughing...I just read the first post and I'm cracking up for reasons unknown to me

 

I'm tired of people degrading Reggie Bush, just to support their argument for Vince Young. I think both are tremendous prospects, and that we are very fortunate to have the opportunity in deciding the course of our franchise with the number 1 overall pick.

But let's clear up some things. Let's address all of the anti-Reggie Bush propaganda. Examples: "Reggie Bush will never be a workhorse back / Reggie Bush can't run between the tackles / Reggie didn't even have Pete Carroll's confidence in USC's most important game."

Fact, Reggie Bush carried the ball 200 times this year. He had more carries than LenDale White. Fact, Reggie Bush had 268 total touches this year (carries, catches, KR, PR). Carnell Williams and Ronnie Brown split carries their last year at Auburn. I don't remember hearing about a lot of durability issues about them coming out of college. Williams never had a season where he touched the ball more than 260 times at Auburn. Bush had 268 touches this year.

Let's take look at this small back / big back issue. Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott. Warrick Dunn is 5'9", 180 lbs. He is a 9 year veteran and 31 years of age. He just rushed for 1400 yards this year with a 5.1 per carry average. Mike Alstott is the "Big Back" in the Bucs equation. 6'1", 248 lbs. 10 year veteran, 32 years of age. Mike Alstott is DONE! He hasn't been marginally effective since 2002. Warrick Dunn in college never had as many touches as Reggie Bush in College. In 1996, Dunn had only 219 touches at FSU.

Let's take a look at Tiki Barber. 5'10", 200 lbs. 9th NFL season, 30 years of age. He just rushed for 1800 yards this past season. Where's Ron Dayne? He of the great college stats, monster Rose Bowl games, and prototypical size.

How about Eddie George. After 9 NFL seasons, he's out of the league. Jerome Bettis stopped being a good every down back in 2001. Curtis Martin. All 5'10", 210 lbs lead the league in rushing last year and is a 11 year veteran.

If people are basing their claims that Bush cannot be an every down back because of his college career or his size, the evidence doesn't really support that claim. His 268 touches this past year is a pretty damn good workload. Size hasn't kept a lot of backs from being productive late in their careers. Running style is a bigger factor whether a back can be effective later in their careers. Barry Sanders proved that. Marcus Allen proved that. Tiki Barber, Curtis Martin, and Warrick Dunn are proving that. Power backs tend to have fewer "prime" years. Eddie George, Earl Campbell, Jerome Bettis, Natrone Means, Christian Okoye, and so forth.

Bush's running style precludes him from taking a lot of hits and I think that's going to help him stay healthy for his career.

Also, comparisons to Raghib Ismail and Desmond Howard are terrible. Ismail and Howard were wide receivers that returned kickoffs and punts. Their career paths are irrelevant when evaluating Reggie Bush as a multi-dimensional running back.

Next, Bush and the 2006 Rose Bowl. Bush prior to the 2005 college football season was considered a top of the round talent. Should we really hold it against Bush that he: a) was surrounded by tons of talent, b) split carries with another talented running back, or c) didn't perform above expectations in a bowl game.

Let's start with "a". If you are going to be a dominating, championship caliber team, you will be surrounded with tons of talent. Was Andre Johnson any less of a player because he only caught 60 passes for 1000 yards (not exactly jaw dropping numbers) on a superstar ladened Miami team? After all, how hard is it to achieve those numbers in college when you have an All-American QB, two Pro Bowl running backs, a Pro Bowl TE, and a couple of 1st rounders on the offensive line. No we shouldn't hold that against Andre Johnson, just as we shouldn't hold that against Bush.

Or how bout Ray Lewis or Ed Reed on anyone of those great Miami defenses? How could they not be playmakers in college when they are surround by 1st rounders on the D line that are constantly putting pressure on the QB, taking on multiple blockers on run plays, and so on and so forth.

Let's move on to "b", splitting carries with another talented back. Just because there are two talented backs in the backfield, it shouldn't be an indictment against the "other" talented back that he can't wrestle away all of the carries from the "other" back. Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams had what most would consider very good 1st seasons in the NFL. They had to split carries on college. Should we really hold it against Barry Sanders that he couldn't start ahead of Thurman Thomas while the two were at Oklahoma State. Barry didn't even split carries with Thurman Thomas his first two years. He was literally the backup.

Let's move to "c", didn't perform above expectations in a bowl game. Reggie Bush had 177 rushing and receiving yards in the Rose Bowl. Reggie Bush averaged 170 yards rushing and receiving during the 2005 season. Bush performed in the Rose Bowl as well as he performed all season long. Why is everyone so disappointed? Taking in account "Big Games" is sometimes an overrated stat. Ron Dayne was back-to-back Rose Bowl MVP. Tyrone Wheatley rushed for 250 yards in his last Rose Bowl game. Ryan Leaf had a great Rose Bowl in the national championship game against the 1997 Michigan Wolverines. Peyton Manning that same year threw for 150 yards with a couple of picks in his last bowl game. Or how about Andre Johnson being "shut down" by Chris Gamble in the 2003 BCS championship game? Putting too much emphasis on one game can some times lead to bad player evaluations.

When evaluating college players, especially QB's, we need to take in account productivity over a period of time, along with all of the "measureables." Vince Young was not considered a bonafide 1st round pick. Vince Young has really had only one good season of passing the ball. A lot of QB's have had one good statistical passing seasons. A body of work over multiple seasons is the best and safest way to evaluate a QB. Hell, Dave Ragone after his Junior season was considered a sure fire number 1 pick before he had a subpar Senior season. Omar Jacobs was the talked of the town after his great Sophomore season. Yet is he really going to be a 1st rounder this year after his disappointing Junior season.

Bottom line, I will be really happy with whoever we pick. I think Young and Bush are two of the most intriguing talents to enter the draft in years. I went to UT. I love Vince. But I'm a Houston fan first and everything else will always be secondary. I just hope in retrospect that we make the right decision.

 

damn, that was a great post.

 

da man, solid post

 

Nice trade for the Texans, but I don't think it will happen.

 

im worried that VY might not be that good in the pros. what if we trade carr and draft him and have losing seasons? will everyone still love VY or go to the games? i doubt it. the only thing that matters to most people is the W. remember when everyone here was all hoopla over JL III first game as a rocket? where's the love now?

 

Did you just compare John Lucas III to Vince Young?

 

LOL, you are also anticipating unproven Carr to have a breakout year as he gets up in age. Carr will never carry a team, he is not a good leader.

 

Great post. Best defense I've read of Bush, up 'til now. I'd still like the Texans to draft Young, but you make a strong case for Bush.

 

Great post, Da Man. I'm on the Bush side, but still had fears about his durability. You pretty much made me much more comfortable with a pick of Bush.

The Chron should pay you and put that in the paper.

 

da man that was a hell of a post and probably the best non-biased support of reggie bush anyone could write. i'll be happy with either player as well but i'm very much leaning towards bush.

 

Da Man - Great post. I will be excited whoever the Texans get, although I am leaning towards VY, but would be thrilled with Bush

 

I have major questions about Bush, whether that is "degrading" Reggie Bush is another question. I have had these questions BEFORE the Rose Bowl, and had made my claim VY was the best college player before, but that is another debate. I have watched a ton of SC games for 2+ years, so I think I have a pretty good handle on Bush's strengths, weaknesses, and questions as a football player.

Bush is a phenomenal open field runner and terrific in space. He also gets to top speed as quick as anyone and has terrific balance. In these respects Ismail or Peter Warrick is a very good analogy (let's not forget these two plus rbs like Blair Thomas, Kijana Carter, Bryan Westbrook, Sayers all seem a little injury prone or took career ending injuries, it is more of a crap shoot than you think). Open space is a lot harder to come by in the pros (it was a lot harder for Reggie versus Texas and OU than his West Coast opponents), you have to be effective other ways. Bush also seems very wirery strong in a 205 or so frame, but not Emitt Smith type strong when every play it seems he got 3-4 more yards than they play should have gotten based on final contact.

Bush is not an outstanding or instinctive between the tackles runner. The persons you list--Dunn, Barber, Cadillac, Martin or say also throw out there Faulk, Allen, Sanders and Dorsett (because if you take Bush #1 you think he is like these hall of famers, not merely a very good player like Dunn)--made livings outside and inside the tackles. All great RBs, no matter how fast they are, in the pros must make most their livings between the tackles to produce 1st downs. This requires instincts on blocks and slipping tackles in tight space and so forth. Bush might develop this, or he might not. I can say for certaintly though the evidence of his 1st down producing instincts from college are not like Dorsett or Faulk. Reggie Bush's instincts right now is to try to turn the corner and outrace everyone to the corner if their is a little traffic. That doesn't work in the pros. In fact speed as a RB isn't as critical as instincts (slipping tackles/reading blocks) and lower body strength--that is why Emmitt and Payton are your rushing leaders, neither guy known for top end speed. A few guys have unique blends of both--Faulk, Dorsett, Sanders.

I am not saying Reggie Bush won't be a great pro tailback or a workhorse. But to not consider he wasn't a workhorse in college nor consider that SC didn't give him the ball 3 strait times when a 1st down secures you a title should produce legitimate questions. Certainly enough questions that you should not say you have made up your mind to draft him without ever individually working him out nor considering another college player who just declared who showed a combination of athleticism, size, leadership, and composure that most who have watched big time college football have not ever seen before.

Overall the safest pick is probably Leinart. VY and Bush both have a lot of adjustments for the pro game to be dominating pro players--I have focused on Bush here but I could on VY as well. But I do take issue with someone saying Bush is a sure thing RB like Dorsett or Faulk or Sanders--probably the comparisons a Bush proponent want's to make, those guys did have more evidence for their case, you can't deny it. Maybe LenDale would be good enough to take critical carriers (with National Championships on the line) away from pure runners of their level, but I doubt it.

Further it would be criminal to have a knee jerk reaction and committ to Bush as the Texans publically are doing without bring the individuals out for workouts. Since the season is over Bush's ability to run between the tackles consistently is never going to be know, that is going to be a lasting question. Honestly unless Bush shows Deion like speed (4.25) and Vick-like lower body strength (500lb squats?)--which is possible, OR unless VY shows a really weak arm or comes out poor in mental tasks relevant to being an NFL QB, VY should be the #1 pick whether the Texans keep it or not.