Rudy Gay's about to show the world he's on Durant's level

No, I asked YOU how many more game-winning shots does he have to hit for YOU to consider him clutch. You answered by saying you didn't know and then said you're pretty sure it's more than one. I gave you examples of him hitting multiple buzzer beaters to win games. You accepted the premise in my initial question and then you started going off in another direction and implying that you had data proving that he was not clutch (by your standards) once you were given multiple examples, which you implicitly asked for. Here's what it comes down to: Is Rudy Gay a guy you'd feel comfortable with taking the last shot with the game on the line?

 

I'm trying to get to a definition of what "clutch" is out of you.

If you think that data set is an apt definition - ok, that's good.

It doesn't appear that he's particularly clutch, especially compared to his fellow Max Salary cohort. True "Clutchnessituders" like Anthony, James etc kind of blow him out of the water over the time frame . Hell, Pau Gasol (who was on the Grizzlies during that time period) was giving you more (and so was Mike James, heh).

(BUT...he sample sizes are so small it's kind of hard to really tell, which means also that "clutchnessitude" probably ultimately doesn't matter very much in last second situations and is highly dependent on randomness and chance. This doesn't, of course, help your argument that he possesses this valuable skill, if in fact it's not really a skill at all.)

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Who are my other options? Vernon Maxwell? LeBron James? Mike James? Who is open?

Everything here is relative, again you don't see the opportunity cost issue. And btw, it doesn't "come down to" that - nobody makes personnel decisions that way, because the other 47:59 matter just as much as the last 0:01, especially when you multiply it by 82+ games.

 

That's a worse idea than whatever it was that you just went to jail for. McGrady was a 25ppg scorer (and 2 time scoring champ) back then and a great distributor. Gay was the 5th option on a terrible Grizzlies team. What makes you think he would have gotten any minutes on a very good Rockets team?

Hell, even now Gay's an 18ppg player who generates few assists. He's got the 5th best PER on his team. He's not one tenth the player McGrady was in his prime. He's closer to an in-their-prime Keith Van Horn or Harvey Grant at this point of his career.

 

what don't you understand about potential out of college. yeah, its easy to compare in hindsight. i'm glad you weren't my lawyer. i know you are one.

they lost to utah, they should have taken the better asset. this isn't even an argument anymore

edit: and they got nothing for him so far.

look, no hating on battier, loved him in 09 vs the lakers but rudy was a better asset whom you gave up for nothing in hindsight

 

Stop playing semantics. I asked you a simple question. I'll ask it another way and we'll see if we can get an answer out of you: If the game is on the line and Rudy Gay is taking the final shot, would you feel confident in his abilities to make that shot? Thanks in advance.

 

I'll answer your question.

Would I feel comfortable with him taking the final shot? Easy answer. No. I wouldn't feel comfortable with anyone taking the final shot. Being down and having to rely on some miracle shot to win a ballgame makes me extremely uncomfortable and I automatically assume we are going to lose.

And thats the whole point which you seem to be missing. I don't care how good a guy is in the 4th or in the clutch. I want want a guy who is consistently good/great so you can avoid last second shots all together.

Rudy Gay is not that. He is an incosistant offensive player who is average to below average on D. Whether he hits a game winner or no is irrelevant to me, as his poor play in the first - third quarter is likely what led to needing a last second shot to begin with.

Is it exciting to have some great come from behind win against the Warriors? Sure, its fun to watch that happen. But you can't deny he was piss poor in the first half leading to the huge defecit to begin with.

 

I just turned on the TV to watch Memphis play the Clippers, and the Grizz are wearing the worst looking uniforms I have ever seen. There is no way Mempis will perform well in those uniforms.

Gay as good as Durant? Not this season.

 

Well, if that's all you're giving me, it says he only hits it 30-something percent of the time.

So, on balance, no.

And I'd be right, twice as often as I'd be wrong.

 

Since you keep bringing up Lebron, how about this - FT% when down 2 with under 24 seconds left in the game. Or - settling for a jump shot vs. taking it to the basket when down 1 or 2 with under a minute left - since we all know he could get to the basket at will whenever he wants. Those are the kind of numbers I would be interested in when talking about 'clutch'. Anyone afraid of going to the line in the closing seconds with the game in the balance is automatically ruled out when it comes to being 'clutch'. Playoffs would of course weigh much more heavily than regular season stats.

 

well if you have those stats, i'd love to look at them. but i suspect you don't. so unless one of us gets a hook-up at the elias sports bureau, we'll have to settle for reasonable facsimiles.

i know www.chasing23.com had a playoff game-winning/tying article on kobe and lebron one time and had kobe at 7-25 and lebron at 5-12. i don't remember the exact criteria but it was probably tied, down 1 or 2 with less than 24 seconds left. and i think 4 of lebron's 5 were layups or really close shots (the 3 against orlando was the other one). he probably has more playoff game-winning/tying shots at the basket than anyone since he came into the league. since i think i remember an 82games stat that had kobe and lebron tied for the lead with 4 playoff game-winners since 2003-04 (this was a few years ago), i can't imagine many players having more game-winning/tying shots at the basket.

 

99.9% of game winning shots are jumpers. It is virtually impossible to get to the hole or get a call on final plays.

 

Memphis, that's just completely wrong.

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I also remember one buzzer beater in 2009 or 2010 where Brandon Roy made a layup to beat us, and another where Vince Carter made an alley-oop at the buzzer when he was a Net.

Of course, there was Lebron dunking and lay-uping over and over again in Game 5 of the 2007 ECF.

Those are all off of my head. I'm sure I could dig up more if I tried.

 

According to 82games.com, there were 815 FTAs and 2,858 FGAs during "game winning" situations between 2003-2004 and 2008-2009. So that comes out to 0.285 FTAs per FGA.

A quick check shows that in 2010-2011, the full season league average of FTA/FGA was 1,998/6,660. That comes out to 0.3 FTAs per FGA, which is only slightly higher than the above rate for game winning shots.

So I really, really doubt that "99.9%" of game winning shots are jumpers, or that it's "almost impossible" to get a call in such situations.

Cold, hard stats dispelling unsupported assertions yet again.

 

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Rudy Gay was useless today and the Grizz have lost 3 in a row.

18 points on 15 shots.

0 assists and 4 turnovers.

Gay isn't even going to the line 4 times per game this year.

Instead he relies on that feminine fadeaway of his.

 

Gay did make a game-tying shot with 20-sec left in the game.

 

Was it a fadeaway?

 

Layup