Rudy Gay: Staying with Losing Team "Is Important to Me"

Mac shot? If it is, I never thought that dude didn't want to win. I guess this year proves it.

 

Erm Lowry wasn't exposed in the Grizz, he had actually outplayed Conley JR for the starting spot, something Kelly Dwyer agrees with me on. The Grizz just didn't want to embarrass themselves by trading their 3rd pick and keeping their 2nd rounder.

The problem with your post is you're comparing Gay to a role player. Is he supposed to be a role player that's only asked to do what he can do? The Grizz team is crappy, and as one of the core players of that franchise it's Gay's fault that they suck.

Besides, you've got it all wrong. Players always look good in lottery teams because they can put up their stats. Your point about players not being asked to do more than they can is correct if you're looking at it from a team perspective, but from a purely player perspective young players always benefit and put up better numbers in crappy teams.

A great example would be Rudy Gay. You think he'd average the same 19.8 pts in here? Like I said his pt production per 40 mins is the same as Von Wafer, he'd also average 9.7 pts in the 19 mins of daylight he would be getting. Certainly we wouldn't be having this discussion about him because no one will think he's a star in the making. Gay just wants to T-mac all day and shoot jumpers from the perimeter instead of using his body to get that ball inside. Unfortunately he doesn't have Tmac's touch, and certainly not Tmac's talent in his prime. Like I said, right now he's just a poor man's Andre Iguadala, and his ceiling is a middle man's Andre Iguadala as well, unless he somehow undergoes a change of heart and starts bringing the D and the intensity night in and night out.

 

What so bad about him wanting to stick around and try and improve a bad team?


Maybe he should wait a few years, join another clubs at the same time as a few other star players, finally be able to win a title with all the help in the world and then he can spend the following 12 months strutting around the place like a complete a$$ to the point where the entire league hates him.

 

His weaknesses were clear were they not? All I heard about Lowry from Rox fans before the trade was "Why trade a starting PG on a winning team for a backup PG on a losing team?"

So it's all Gay's fault that they suck and not the loser's mentality that has surrounded that franchise since forever? Was it Gasol's fault they sucked then and Battier's fault they sucked then? Nothing is wrong with Gay being a role player, but he's a premium role player on a good team. But his ceiling isn't lowered because he hasn't blossomed in his first 5 years, some guys just take longer.

Young players benefit by playing on crappy teams? I'm not so sure of that, what about the examples I gave you of players who were not on good teams and then went to good teams and flourished? They received better coaching and could do what they did best without worrying about hurting the team.

I'm not looking at his stats, not once have I even looked. Yeah I think he'd average around 19 points here coming off the bench honestly. His play would be better since he'd get a lot of good looks at the basket and Adelman is a good coach and would get near the best out of him.

I think it's unfair to say his ceiling is a middleman's Iggy. Rudy is like 22 years old, just because he didn't come into the NBA and tear it apart like James doesn't mean the next few years he could blossom.

Comparing him to Von Wafer, he has a better shot than Wafer. He can create his own shot. He can drive, it's his mentality that stops him. Mentality is a thing that can change. If we could trade Wafer for him straight up i'd do it.

As for the Grizzlies, that franchise saps energy out of players because it seems more like a NBA Filler team more than anything. I'm not going to blame Rudy for the failure of that franchise. The Grizzlies has never been anywhere...the Clippers have had more success then them and that's saying a lot.

 

no a true winner helps make a winner not pout and b!tch his way out of town

 

This is where you are wrong. His 2 years in college and 3 years in the NBA don't show much of any mentality change. Most NBA players don't change their on-court mentality and attitude after age 22. For Gay, it's possible but very doubtful. If you ask me, Rudy Gay isn't much (if any) better this season than last season.

If I were to compare him with another player, I would use Shawn Marion instead of AI2. The difference is in his younger days, Marion played tougher, with more intensity and with more abandon (sometimes to his detriment). Rudy Gay just isn't wired that way. He will have bursts and spurts, but his "on" switch is in the "off" position a lot of the time. That was his story at UConn and it's the same story with the Grizz.

 

Kobe changed his mentality like a season and a half ago.

Billups changed his, and Dirk changed his. It's not much of a stretch that he can change his mentality. David West, there are many players who suddenly become more aggressive or change the way they play the game because of what is around them. When you play for a a franchise who has had one all-star player, has never won playoff game, and the owners sure don't seem in any rush to have any success...I mean a good player is either going to just fall in line with the mediocrity of the franchise or do everything he can to turn it around. We are forgetting instantly that Gay leading up to his NBA career was highly touted as a player.

Sometimes it's not even mentality it's motivation also.

It's not just so cut and dry as to "Yeah this guy has reached his ceiling or near it." because he's 22 years old and has potential to be a all-star caliber player and any number of things can change his mentality, like his work with Team USA. If he continues to hang around those guys his mentality can change.

 

It's one thing to downshift and finally be able to control one's aggression and ego like Kobe. Dirk has always been aggressive on offense, he just got smarter and decided to shoot more FTs and less 3-pointers. David West didn't so much change his mentality; he just improved himself and got better. Chauncey Billups has a completely different personality from Gay. Not even close. It will snow in August in Houston before Rudy Gay becomes a floor leader of any sort.

The same question about mentality and motivation (whatever you want to call it) dog Gay just like they did in college. Nothing has changed. We'll see what happens with the guy. That fact he's been passed up so quickly by Mayo just about closes the case to me. But if Rudy Gay somehow makes the step up to the next level and becomes a legit star player, good for him. I just don't see it.

Just to let you know, I don't take this position because I want to defend the Battier trade or anything like that. That was a mistake by the Rockets.

 

About Lowry, the reason that's all you heard about him was because that was Rox fans talking about him. Go to a Grizzlies board and the opinion is vastly different, Kyle was ballin' when he was traded. I personally think the Grizz got ripped off again in that trade. No way in hell you find a low draft pick as good as Lowry in such a weak draft.

Next, your logic about young players being better off on good teams only works if the team has pt available for that player, or if the rookie is extra extra special (like Kobe or Cp3). No matter how good the coaching is, it doesn't beat playing time, unless you're a big in which case its better to learn from a good big man coach (see Bynum and Al Jefferson). If Gay had went to a really good team (like say the Lakers) then he wouldn't have gotten the minutes available, wouldn't be able to play through his mistakes and wouldn't be the focus of the offense. Look at the guys in the league who got buried because the teams they went to had really good players at their position:
*Maxiell (Sheed and Wallace/Mcdyes)
*Amir Johnson (see above)
*Okur (see above)
*Gerald Wallace (when Sacto had Artest and Wells)
*Kevin Martin (see above)
*Millsap (Boozer)
You could probably even argue that some players like Darko Milicic got destroyed when they went to stacked teams. If he had gone to a lottery team and got enough PT to polish his skills he might be a better player today.

In sum, you really should look at stats of players you like. Stats give a good picture of how a player is performing, without being clouded by bias or opinions. If you did, you'd see that no way would Gay be able to average 19 pts off the bench here, because not only would he not be the focus of the offense with Yao and Tmac and Alston (LOL) here, he'd also get less PT.

Finally I think the middleman AI comment is a reflection of his attitude now. He's still only 22 yrs old so there's lots of room for improvement, but as long as the commitment and drive to take contact isn't there, that's about as high his ceiling's gonna be. Of course if he has a change of heart then he'd probably be Josh Howard on steroids, but that's just an IF right now...

 

Marion? Gay doesn't have Marion's build IMHO; I mean do you really think Gay can play PF like Marion can? On the other hand I'd say Gay has a better shot than Marion, although Marion can probably hit 3s at a better clip than him...Gay's form is certainly better looking and smoother. I'd still say AI or Granger is a more similar player to Gay than Marion. Marion is a sf/pf hybrid, while Gay looks like a traditional swingman (sf/g) to me.

 

I see your point. I might need to think harder on who Gay reminds me of.

 

AI is not the franchise player? Really?

I call bull****.

There's no way Gasol is better than Gay.

 

Wafer? dude wafer is a great bench player but nothing else. I hate to say this but when Rudy goes for a dunk he does not get blocked by anybody, including the rim. Wafer has more hops in his jumper but Rudy does not need to do that because he's 6'8.

 

Gay reminds me of a more talented version of Gerald Green. Remember both were speculated to be selected higher then where they were picked in their respective drafts, there were questions about their work ethics. (Green also wouldn't work out for any teams but the top 6 lottery teams.)

They're both of the same mold, super athletic swingmen with questionable work ethics and doesn't play hard every night.

 

Well if AI was a real franchise player then Philly shouldn't have sucked because they already had a good pg and PF by his side. Then again, Brand was injured all season, so I guess my comment on AI2 is premature.

Yes way Gasol is better than Gay. Gasol is not a scrub, he was the MVP of the Spanish league before he in Memphis, and he's only 22 yrs old. He's also a legit 7 footer, and unlike his Bro he's really a center (posseses the body type of a C). He already has good fundamentals in scoring down low, and that's really hard to find nowadays since most guys like that are 6-8 and below pfs (see Brand, Maxiell, Jefferson and Boozer). Unlike Gay he also plays both sides of the ball. Too bad the Grizz's run and gun style don't really fit his skillset. Twolves and Grizz should do each other a favor and trade Gasol for Love+ a 2nd round pick.

 

There's more to playing bball than dunking. Unless he's flight white and can dunk from the ft line all day. Wafer's a better 3pt shooter than Gay, and drives harder and plays more aggressively too. Gay's more athletic and better at creating his shot, however Gay's advantages are minimized since he doesn't play good defense and doesn't like to drive inside and absorb contact. The more important factor though is that Wafer will only be paid between 3-8 million per annum, while Gay will earn anywhere from 8 mill-the max. I'd rather have Wafer at his price than Gay at his.

 

Lol I wouldn't go that far. Green had probably the lowest bball IQ I've ever seen, even lower than Stromile Swift and that forward from Portland that took over 5 years of intense coaching before he got it (lol). Gay has potential, but Green is really an invalid because he's r****ded basketball wise.

 

There is no comparison between Rudy Gay and Von Wafer. The talent gap is massive. Secondly, Gay won't sniff anything close to a max contract and Wafer won't get anything near $8MM/yr.

 

I guess it just depends.

Some guys benefit from playing on bad teams, they understand by playing on horrible teams what it takes to raise their games and make their team play better.

Some guys though need veteran leadership, they need a guy to show them the ropes and the work ethic it takes to succeed in the NBA. Gay isn't being shown this, not one person in the Grizz locker room can show Gay what it takes to be the All-star in the NBA and Gay isn't a prodical talent like Lebron, Kobe, or Garnett who just knows what it takes. If Gay were here now look at all the guys he can learn from, i'd compare it to Tayshaun's position where he came in and just learned from all those great players around him.

Also i'm saying 19 points on this team, not with Tmac and Rafer. I'm saying if they swapped roles now he'd average 19 because he'd be playing with the second unit which would be..

Lowry/Gay/Artest/Scola/Landry and sometimes he'd be the first option with whose on the floor.

As for Wafer being more valuable because of his price...yeah that is true but Wafer's price will go up this offseason. I'm pretty sure of that and will he be worth it then? Also Gay's defense would improve here, Wafer's defense isn't really any better. Playing alongside guys like Artest and Battier help and Rudy is stronger taller than Wafer.

 

Yes there's a massive talent gap, but like I said Gay doesn't utilize his talent properly. Or he hadn't the past few years, else he wouldn't have been supplanted by an undersized rookie sg as the numero uno perimeter player in his team. The amounts I stated are theoretical, that why I said from 3 mill-8mill and from 8 mill-max. Both of them will probably get something in between those amounts.