Rubio, McCain, other Senators reach deal on immigration changes

Sounds like you disagree with Major. Major says it was in reference to only Midwest Democrats (not entire Midwest). Maybe you guys should talk it out.

The basis of my argument is to read what he said. The basis of Major's argument is to ignore what he said, let Major tell you what he really meant. I posted the quote so you can read what he said.

Spoiler

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it’s fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre…I think they’re misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to ‘white working-class don’t wanna work — don’t wanna vote for the black guy.’ That’s…there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today – kind of implies that it’s sort of a race thing.

Here’s how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn’t buy it. And when it’s delivered by — it’s true that when it’s delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).

But — so the questions you’re most likely to get about me, ‘Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What’s the concrete thing?’ What they wanna hear is — so, we’ll give you talking points about what we’re proposing — close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama’s gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we’re gonna provide health care for every American. So we’ll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you’ll find is, is that people of every background — there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you’ll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I’d be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you’re doing what you’re doing.

to me it's pretty obvious he isn't talking about just Democrats as Major suggests.

 

You are INFERRING that he was talking about republicans, you are not going on what he said, because he never said republicans. That's the very thing that you are bashing that Liberal Media Boogeyman for. I didn't know Major and I had to come to come to some consensus..who knew. What I do know is you made a shotgun statement that is repeated ad nauseum and when you got called out on it you can't back it up with anything except "I'm pretty sure means republicans!"

 

I completely agree. He is talking about a certain subset of people with a certain mindset.

 

You don't think religious gun owners in the Midwest means republicans? What percentage of Midwest gun enthusiasts who go to church every Sunday do you think are Democrat?

How would I prove/disprove who Obama is referring to? What would be my smoking gun?

 

No, I don't. I'm not sure on gun enthusiast but I know a TON of democrats who are avid church goers. Probably in the hundreds. If in your mind the only people who go to church every Sunday are Republicans, then that is a serious problem my friend. Religion is not reserved for the right.

 

I don't think that. Nothing I posted says otherwise. I think most gun enthusiasts who go to church everyday Sunday and live in the Midwest are Republicans (though not all)

 

That is on you. Are you asking me how you should prove the statement you made?

 

No, I am asking you how anyone would prove what Obama was referring to? Since there is no way (short of hidden audio tape of Obama admitting who he meant), then your demanding proof is silly.

 

Simple. I say he didn't mean republicans and was referring to...exactly who he said he was referring to, the midwest. I say this because he never says the word republicans, mentions the republican party, people who vote republican, elephants or the color red, etc. There is my proof. The actual statement.

You say he meant republicans. What you bring to the table is inferring. You tried to tie Obamas statements to your quote-"Democrats still try to paint that silly Republican anti-immigration, racist stereotype they always do". If you can't come with anything besides what you feel, then your statement is the silly one.

 

Seems like fluff marketing, with the usual lack of details on what all that means or entails. It will be interesting when they fill in the blanks... for now? words words words.

 

He is referring to people in the midwest who cling to their guns and religion........ he is calling these people bitter

I would contend that's mostly republicans. would u?

 

I agree.

That however does not mean that that was a jab at republicans. I can look at a group of people standing on the street. All of those people are wearing purple hoodies. If I say "I hate people in purple hoodies RAWR!", and 95% of the people in that group are to be female, that does not mean that I hate females.

 

It means Obama thinks a subset of Americans are bitter (amongst other things). That subset happens to be largely Republican. But if you don't think he had that in mind when he made the comment then fine.

 

And we went from a great reply to straight ****ing downhill with all the attacks and putting people into neat little boxes.

 

Spoiler

The problem with your argument is that you continue to ignore context. This was all said at an Obama primary fundraiser, in a talk about how to appeal more to *Clinton voters*, and how to do better in the primaries in those areas. The issue was that lots of people were arguing that white working class voters were racist and wouldn't vote for him - he was arguing against that. It was entirely in the context of a Democratic primary and had nothing at all to do with Republicans.

Even if you believe it was referencing Dems and Republicans, it STILL is in no way an attempt to paint Republicans as racist.

 

On a side note, from PA exit polls in the Dem primary, Obama wasn't quite right in his statement, though the total effect of racists in the PA primary was fairly small and would not have swing the election. 20% of voters said race of the candidate was important to them, and Clinton won those people by larger margins than her overall win. Same thing was true in Ohio

Also, 60% of the voters in the PA primary were Christian (79% in Ohio), and 35% were from gun-owning households (no gun data for Ohio). those were the people he was referring to - Democratic primary voters.

 

Not exactly and it is very likely that limiting immigration will make it hard to maintain a middle class quality of life. Immigrants, especially the undocumented ones, have been a big check on inflation by keeping a check on inflation. Without immigrants the price of food, construction and many other things would greatly increase. Further SSI and other retirement programs are based on continuing influxes of young workers. Currently the US population is growing primarily due to immigrants and the children of recent non-white immigrants. Without that SSI and other programs would go broke very quickly.

 

I know plenty of racist Democrats too.

 

I can't stop giggling at the thought that texxx actually thinks immigration reform is a republican idea.

 

There are many Republicans that have pushed for immigration reform such as McCain and GW Bush. Republican business interests have pushed for greater H1-B visas and guest worker visas.

While the Republican party of recent years has played fast and loose with nativist rhetoric the party as a whole hasn't been united that way and this issue is divisive in the party.