were we watching the same game? it looked to me like the only time one could say kobe hogged it was the end of regulation. at which point he hit a 3 to give them a one point lead and a 2 to give them a 3 point lead with 30 seconds left which i think was their biggest lead of the 2nd half. then their D let them down and gave up the 3. and then in OT, the first two times non-kobe lakers did something it was a TO and a missed shot. the first 4 times kobe did something it resulted in 3 made shots. perhaps you think this hurt the lakers. i see 75% and think it's good. now what was the real reason they lost? their D. i think the suns hit 8 of 9 shots in OT. so basically the two missed possessions by the non-kobe lakers were the game b/c their D was so bad. i suppose you'll argue all of the lakers collectively decided to stop playing D in an OT to close a playoff series b/c kobe took 4 of 6 shots. that would be a little ridiculous considering they managed to play D all season while he shot much more. if that were remotely true i might buy it. D lost the game. i don't know how you think it was kobe making shots that lost the game. it was only working b/c they held the suns down so well. their offense got worse. the numbers prove it. are you arguing that their offense was better? i hope not. that's mostly a nice theory, but once you're in the playoffs people don't just quit. if they really hated kobe shooting for 82 games, i think they would have quit on D a long time ago. they had a sound defensive strategy and executed for 4 games. they gave up 114 in regulation in game 5, and kobe shared all over the place. why was that? the guys had to be playing D since he was sharing. they gave up 107 in game one with sharing. the likely explanation is the suns offense just kind of comes and goes and if they're not hitting like games 2-4 you can beat them. the last two games they have been hitting and we saw what happened. last night? for 3 quarters i don't think anyone could accuse kobe of doing anything but playing team ball. he was taking perfect shots and hitting a high percentage. only in the 4th did he start to take over. and it got them their biggest lead of the night. oh what a poor strategy. they almost stole a game they never had control of with kobe shooting. i have the lakers significantly worse offense against a horrible defense to back up that sharing wasn't helping the offense.
turn the ball over for the game-tying layup? turn it over to set up the game-winning shot? miss a wide open 3 to tie the game, only to have tim thomas make a tougher 3 to save you? watch as kobe hits a tough 3 to put his team up 1 and then a tough drive to put them up 3 while the suns go scoreless until the tim thomas 3? has steve nash really had a "close game" moment since the 3 he hit when they were already up 3 in game 1?
yeah, there's no chance it's actually true. if every team with a great star and mediocre supporting cast just shared, they'd all win the title! it's never possible that a guy is actually really good, doesn't have teammates to beat the other team, puts on a superb performance, but the other team's overwhelming talent advantage wins out. not possible. it must just be sharing vs non-sharing. and no one gets it! not even the coaches. they keep trying to win with their best players when sharing can take down anyone, even another sharing team. well, except for that offense phase. but that's not important. what, not grabbing the last rebound was because kobe made a layup right before and odom really thought he should've gotten to take the shot? what were the 20 or so turnovers they had before kobe took over? a great team effort to lull the suns into a false sense of security? well, as long as you don't take anything you're saying seriously, i guess your comments are OK. and as a side note, what happened to taking over a game? is no superstar ever allowed to take more than 1/5 of his teams shots at the end of the game without being a ballhog now? the nba, more than any other league, defines stars by how they take over down the stretch. jordan did it for years and was praised. kobe does it and it works perfectly and someone else makes a 3 to tie it and it was a horrible strategy. i think kobe is averaging something like 21 shots per game in this series. you don't think jordan took more than that? he averaged over 30 ppg in basically every playoff series he was in. and the bulls won 6 titles. how could it have happened?! the rules say you have to share share share or it won't work. he dropped 55 against i think washington one time and had 20 of the bulls 23 in the 4th quarter. and they won. how could it happen? you can't score 30 and win. did championship jordan ever average 24 ppg for 5 games against such a crappy defense? i'm guessing no, b/c he never played as passively as kobe has. and yet kobe should play more passively still apparently. hakeem took something like 30 shots per game in the finals against the magic and we swept them. he averaged 35 a game against the spurs and we killed them. he sure wasn't shy about shooting. he only passed when there was a double team. kobe is passying and letting others go a lot without double teams. superstars have always taken a lot of shots. if anything, kobe is taking a lot fewer shots this series than most superstars ever have in their primes. kevin garnett gets criticized all the time b/c he is too willing to pass at the end of games and won't take them over. kobe takes a game over to the tune of a huge 3 and big time layup and gets his team the lead after trailing/playing catch up most of the game (seriously, did you watch the game FranchiseBlade?) and now that's a bad thing. maybe he shouldn've been more like kg. i mean, that's gotten him what, one trip past the first round.
The double standard against Kobe is absolutely hilarious. I don't even like the guy but you guys take it too far. Why is he being criticized for trying to take over the game in the clutch? Uhhh, isn't that what a superstar is supposed to do? It's not like he was hogging it all night. He got his guys involved all night and then when everyone else panicked, he tried to put the team on his back. He failed, but just because he came up short doesn't mean he did the wrong thing. He was absolutely on fire down the stretch and you want him to pass it to other Laker players who stiffened up? Kwame couldn't catch a ball to save his life and what the hell was up with that one on one drive by Smush Parker? Is that what you guys had in mind? For future reference, I want McGrady taking every last shot within 2 minutes in close games next year, not passing it off Keith Bogans or some other clown.
Kobe is a great player, but he will always catch mess for being so arrogant in general - then the whole 'rape' thing and ratting out Shaq etc. You reap what you sow...
my problem isn't really people hating kobe. i hate all sorts of players for any number of reasons. it's the cliche on top of cliche form of analysis that all too often passes for truth when discussing the nba. if the cliches were all true, everyone would just do them. but they're not. so much discussion is always about perception and not reality (like the perception the lakers offense was good when in fact it got worse). getting on someone for dominating down the stretch b/c it wasn't "team ball" even though every superstar throughout history has done it and the fact that it worked in terms of getting a lead in the final seconds (only to be blown by completely unrelated factors) is silly. plus, ballhogging typically implies poor shots. there were almost no poor shots taken. the only force would be the 3 with a minute left but that was with 1 second on the shot clock so there weren't many other options.
Yes, Reggie you found me out. I live to come onto the board and discuss games I've never even seen. By the way there were 11 lead changes and 11 ties during the game. The Lakers were the first team to 100. Don't tell me they barely had the lead during the game.
I am not down on Kobe for dominating down the stretch. I actually think game 5 was Kobe playing within the team concept and then dominating when he had to and when it was wise. The last shot at regulation by Kobe was horrible decision making and ball hogging. As for the getting guys involved helps them play better defense theory it works like this. It isn't that they quit because they never see the ball on the offensive end, it is that their concentration isn't as focused. They run down court, and then watch one person try and score, or score, and then run down to the other end, where they work hard switching, running through picks, staying with their man, etc. Then they run back again and do nothing. It may become tedious, and their focus isn't the same. Announcers, and former players talk about this all the time. Furthermore Jordan did better when started trusting Phil, the trianle, and his teammates. Hakeem did better when he started trusting his teammates. The list goes on and on. Yes, they are still superstars and they still will be called on to dominate, but they do it within the team concept. I don't mind that people think Kobe's 50, and shot load didn't have an effect on the Laker's loss. People can disagree. I gave my reasons, and provided shooting of other players to help support it. 5 really good people playing together will do better than one superstart playing by himself. Even if that superstar shoots a great percentage like Kobe did last night.
As much as I dislike both Kobe and Nash and have found myself cheering for the Lakers and Kobe I have got to give it up to Nash. If it were Kobe that had that no call foul or didn't get the timeout in game 5 Kobe would have gone crazy on the refs and hell Phil Jackson would say one of his infamous speaches about unfair treatment by the refs and what not. Although I still want the Lakers to advance, I gotta give it up to Nash for being such the competitor and not complaining and just playing the game. Him saying something along the lines of " I'll try better next time " speaks volumes on his sportsmanship and the success the Suns have with him being the leader.
Steve Nash is a freakin' stud! Everyone already knows Kobe is a stud and a superstar, I think in the past two seasons Steve Nash has joined that elite group of players. I know, it's almost unthinkable that a player this late in his career would just start dominating, but that's the case with him bad back and all. I gained tons of respect for him after the Game 5 when Diaw CLEARLY called a timeout right in front of the refs and didn't get it - as well as Nash getting hacked twice and yet got a no call - and he didn't whine and b**** about it in the posgame conference, he just said I will do better next time. His stock went WAY up in my book, it's amazing watching him put on the type of show he does, Magic would be proud...
Even beyond that, anyone who can make tim thomas into a halfway legitimate player is great in my book
That's just the thing. Next to Shawn Marion (whom continues to be exposed in the playoffs) that Suns team has no top-notch talent. They're entirely dependent on Nash to run the show, to initiate the pass or figure out what to do on any given position. I mean seriously, let me go through their lineup and tell me jus what these guys did before they joined the Suns: Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, Tim Thomas, Barbosa, Jones, and Brian Grant. How many games did the Suns win last season (regular season, that is)? How about this season after having lost Amare Stoudamire (a top ten talent last season), Joe Johnson (a guy who played so well last season he got a max contract from the Hawks), Quinton Richardson (a guy who played so well with this team, only to disappear and rejoin irrelevancy upon his departure to NYC), and Jim Jackson. Seriously, tell me one other player in the entire league that can win more than 55 games in a season with a starting lineup of Raja, Diaw, Marion, and Kurt Thomas?
Yup, it is. Despite all the fact that the Suns didn't help their cause with their play late in that game, they STILL should've easily won it if the right calls had been made, the series would've been over by now. However, being Rockets fans and having gone through Game 5 in Dallas last season and experiencing the worst refereeing job in history of the league, I can't say I am surprised.
That's why soem times i m quite fed up with the league. Certain teams (Lakers, Dallas) or certain players(Lebrond, Kobe, Jordon) always have special treatment in this league. Look at how Tim Duncan did during the olympics' games without the help from the nba referees(of cos i do feel the international referees trying hard to screw the US players ). Duncan was frustrated and this the exact frustration our star Yao Ming feels in this league!
The refereeing has alwas been that way. Remeber the Chicago - Utah Finals, when replays showed that Byron Scott hit jumper in regular time, but it was called as irregular and then Jordan hit "regular" basket after the shot clock as it was shown clearly in replay. If you're an underdog, less-superstar-included team, you have to win it major and not by one, otherwise calls don't go your way.
I was thinking the same thing. I almost have a positive feeling toward the guy, if you can imagine that. The way he handeled that was really exemplarary.
wow didnt see this now that makes me even more upset I can imagine what the suns fans are feeling after the game 5 incident last year. While finley was completely out of bounds when he knocked the ball out, vujajcic foot is completely without a doubt out of bounds and there are TWO refs looking at the play. while bennet salvadore (far ref) could say he was looking at the ball the other has no excuse he should have seen the foot. whats makes this even more "amazing" how there are times during the game where refs see players pinky toe graze the out of bounds line and can call it. The fact that this incident happened near the end line the refs should have been watching everything. Granted vujajcic may have only had his foot out for a second (pictures cant show how long), but at the most critical stage of the game they should have seen it. And if Diaw was calling timeout the third ref (dont know where he is) should have seen it. This is the one thing I HATE absolutely HATE about NBA basketball the refs control the game. And I hate the old "let the players play" rule too because often times then there are fouls which aren't called that change the result of the game (see: all-star game 2006 t-mac, lebron). I rather have it called by the book but i dont think that will ever happen. Oh yeah did anyone see Kobe in game 6? That guy was in the refs face so much and animated after calls and he still didnt get a tech I've seen players do a whole lot less (Hell deke got a T against the heat last year for smiling at the ref the wrong way) yet he remains untouched. Its funny that the lakers fans think that the lakers are playing 8 on 5 when its really the suns who've had to face the refs more in this series. I hate d'antoni but i must say i do give him props for not mentioning this incident (or at least i havent read about it) if it was PJ it would have been all over the news. I hope the suns crush the lakers today and then the clippers crush the suns
