They had to keep Collier for 2 reasons. 1. Rudy wants to keep some flavor on the team. 2. It would make Rudy look really bad if he cut his 2000 Lottery pick no matter how bad he is.
Generally, 3rd string players provide some skill/quality that they do better than most, good potential, or some specialized service. Nwankwo doesn't do anything well. Collier may not be a great defender, but he is a solid outside shooter, and runs a nice pick and roll. Not to mention, he's spent a year in the system. Nwankwo isn't a good shooter, and isn't a great defender or rebounder, nor shot blocker. Nwankwo is basically a slab in the middle like Pig Miller. Nwankwo doesn't have much potential to grow as a player either, Collier does.
NIKEStrad... I hope you're talking about the same Collier as what I'm talking about... Have you seen this guy lumbering around the floor trying to play? It's absolutely painful to watch. The man and his 2 inch vertical have no place in the NBA. Absolutely embarrassing... I beg to differ that Collier is a solid outside shooter either. At the very best, he's a mediocre to below mediocre shooter. A soft and slow guy who can't score in the post and has to try and heave it from outside. He hits rim (or air) much more often than cotton and the guy can't even hit <i>free throws</i> with any sort of consistency for crying out loud! Additionally he's a pathetically horrid rebounder and defender...you want to talk about a flabby worthless slab in the middle, and I'll bring you the specimen that is Jason Collier - the poor man's Joe Kleine. I also disagree that Nwanko is the poor defender or rebounder with no hope as you described. Nwanko did a solid job inside during the preseason and did a good job grabbing boards and playing physical if not spectacular defense (you know like how a 3rd string center should). The man showed flashes that he could out-bang and out-hustle competition (something our team has kind of lacked at the center position, wouldn't you say?). Most importantly, he doesn't get injured if he plays more than 5 minutes on the floor (unlike the lucky overweight center we decided to keep on the roster). It's fantastic that Collier worked out all this summer....now he still sucks on the floor....but he can lift more weight! Where do you get the idea that Collier has any kind of potential? What overwhelming flash of brilliance or even mere redemption has told you that he is good for anything other than taking up an inordinate amount of space on the bench? He had one game last season with 10 pts and 6 rebounds and that was the pinnacle for him. What happened soon afterwards? You guessed it--<b>season-ending injury</b>. My main point is...Collier is garbage and an obvious mistake by the Rockets organization....when he's in the game, he's a liability at both ends of the floor....and his play has never at any point proven otherwise. I will be baffled, surprised and maybe even offended if he makes it past this season. Do you actually watch the games before you talk about these guys?
If money were an issue then I'd cry for Jones. As it is we have Moochie - who can handle the ball better and actually coordinate an offensive set - and I hope Damon gets picked up. He's good enough to get picked up by December. You guys underestimate the value of having your star player walk to the bench (or to SG), but keeping a general on the floor. Moochie is a true floor general. Capable PGs are hard to find. Didn't we spend a decade or so looking for one? Now we've got two, and we're spoiled. I am happy.
AxSomebody, You are seriously overestimating a lot of 2nd and 3rd string centers out there. If Collier is worthless, then the majority of them are, as well. For instance, if we were playing against Cato, putting Collier in against Cato would move him out of the lane, and Cato wouldn't really be able to take advantage of Collier on the other end. Like...oooh, I'd love the other team to run some low post to Cato to show that stiff. I'd put in Collier just to coax them into doing it. When people around here say that Collier has a purpose in our offense, we are not deluded by the notion the he should get 10 minutes, or should even get extra minutes if Cato gets injured. Nor do we believe he has a place on the team if Griffin shows he can take on second string centers. No. You are right. There are a lot of centers out there that would destroy Collier. However, there are a lot of lumbering centers out there who can't take serious advantage of him, especially defensive specialists who'd you'd want to move out of the lane with a shooting center. If Griffin shows he can play some center against second string centers, I say Collier has little purpose. That said, the guy can shoot an 18 footer (granted, that is about all other than stand his ground against other lumbering 2nd-string centers). You can stop exaggerating your point by saying he doesn't have a shot. You can also stop exaggerating your point by saying Collier was a mistake. Have you looked at that draft last year? Do you know the trade down for Collier came with a 1st round pick that we used on Griffin? relax....If we play Collier, it will be situational minutes where Rudy really wants to run some p-n-r's against the opposing 2nd-string center, and is not that concerned about the other center's offense. Rudy will run the high p-n-r for about 2-4 times depending on whether Collier helps clear the lane with his shot, or at least the threat of it. If he doesn't, he'll get him out of there.
I understand the rationale behind keeping Collier and Langhi, but I still must agree with Axe to a certain extent. I think that Ike is every bit as capable as Collier as a 3rd string center...and he hustles a lot more, which means a lot in my book. He is also tough. Collier not only looks slow...he is slow. He hasnt shown just a great shooting touch in the limited minutes Ive seen him play. Ike breaks his nose and stays in the game...I like Ike. Collier gets a hangnail and sits for weeks. Langhi is another story. While its a great novelty to have a white man who can jump on your team...I just really dont see why he is needed. We are stacked at that position and he never has looked comfortable in any game Ive seen him play. Again...I keep hearing how this guy can shoot lights out...but I watch nearly every game and I must have been getting another beer while this awesome shooting display was taking place. Turbo can dunk...but theres a reason he doesnt suit up in a Rockets uni....and its probably just because he doesnt have what it takes. I suspect that is why Langhi and Collier will be cut or on the bench all season. I wish it wasnt true...but obviously both of these guys are scrubs, and neither has got what it takes.
Collier has an outside shot Ike doesn't its as simple as that. We don't need to bring in someone that can rebounding since we already get that from Cato and Willis. Ike has no offense or even a threat of offense period so there would never be a reason to bring him in. Collier serves a purpose if only for a few minutes a game. Even if you don't like his outside shot he still has the reputation that the league will not ignore...at least at first. Rice is old and so is Walt. Keeping Langhi on the IR list gives the team insurance against one or both of those players getting injured or traded. Imagine Walt gets traded and Rice gets hurt. Now you are stuck with TMo, Oscar or Griffin getting all of the minutes at the 3 and all are rookies that have little experience in Rudy T's system. With Langhi on IR we could bring in someone that has a good outside shot like Rice, Walt or Bul as well as someone that has worked in Rudy T's system a year. Langhi could still end up being a future player off the bench like Bul has been for so many years. Unless Collier can get healthy and improve his play I do think his days will become numbered at some point but not yet.
Man that hits the nail on the head Crash!! Regardless of anyones thoughts for or against Collier/Langhi that is the most well articulated and insightful post I've seen in about a month! What a tremendously deep team we have this year. It is going to be fun to watch them!
yes...crash has definitely shown up in mid-season shape for this preseason! It looks like he is competing heavily for The Cat's starting position, who seems to be on IR right now.
Tierre Brown made this roster because of only one thing.....he deserves it. I have known this young man since he was a freshman in high school and he is a workhorse. He can play with the best of them, believe it. Time will tell.
We have a Brown fan in the house! Man billymac, you could have logged in as TBro, then we'd have a TBro to balance our TMo, who gives us constant homey reports on Morris.
Actually, billymac, do you know anything about brown being invited to nbdl camp? I would also recommended registering as Tbro. Because brown & morris more than likely are going to be on one hell of a bencher adventure this season...
Crispee.....would you say I am biased? ? ? Yep I sure am. I am a fan of Tierre's. Like I said though, time will tell. Good to be a part of this forum. Tbro?....Naw I will leave that to his Dad. We are just happy for him.
Very good points Crispee, And I agree that the draft class of 2000 was very very weak so we did what we could with it. I'm not saying that trading for him was a mistake, but I think keeping him IS. Your points are mostly valid, but they still don't address my original question of why we picked Collier as third center over Nwanko.... It's a matter of opinion, but I feel Nwanko could do more for our team than Collier could. We have a need for rebounding and defense inside, not a better offense. I am very confident in our ability to put points on the board, and I don't understand why we would need more of what we already have more than enough of. I think that Collier's purpose is simple....6 fouls...but I think Nwanko would make better use of those 6 fouls with his physical play than Collier. Collier doesn't even serve the purpose of being a "shooting center" for our team. If I were the opposing center, I'd slack off on Collier because his jumper is merely inconsistent to mediocre at best. Have you seen how badly he misses some of those things? I don't need exaggeration to prove that Collier is not an especially good shooter even by big man standards. Mainly, Collier is a pseudo-commodity who is constantly injured. Kind of hard to use him in "special situations" when the "situation" is that he's on IR...again. If Collier could stick just one particular jumper with consistency like other former third stringer "specialists" (a la Joe Kleine or Frank Brickowski - someone of that sort) or hit free throws like the "shooter" he was and is advertised as, you wouldn't hear anything from me. But then again, that's not even an issue because he can't even walk to the scorer's table without injuring himself! Just my opinion.....I think Collier is simply useless...even in "special" situations. And just to touch on Langhi....he may be very raw, but he shows flashes of greatness, which is why I don't really have major reasons to dog on him....Collier just shows me flashes of crapulence be it in Rocky Mountain play (or lack of), preseason action, and of course regular season action. I haven't seen him excel or even make a half-decent impression on any level of play. If it looks like garbage, and it smells like garbage, and it plays like garbage...it's Jason Collier
Crash has humility too!!!! What a team guy. I liked Brown when he was out on the floor. I thought he looked very poised and played under control and had some very good assists. His main purpose seem to get his team mates involved without turning the ball over. What more could you want from a 3rd string PG?
Ahh............Finally, ...Its starting too sink in. T.Brown is a good backup. T. Brown is a good backup. T.Brown is a good............ Ya'll keep practicing.
Yo, Been on this site for years but just now broke down and decided to post so take it easy. Agree that Collier and Langhi may have "potential" but so does Cato and until they prove it by performing in a Regular Season game consistently, they would normally not be worth keeping. Now that we have Willis I am not as worried about the 5 but I am very worried about the 4. I don't know how long KT is going to be out(does anyone know how severe his injury is)?. If it is plantar f. then he may be injury prone(ala Rice) for the year. With Kt hurt on and off and rookie Griffin to take all the minutes when KT is out, we do need big bodies to slide to the 4. This makes Langhi and Collier's potential important to keep to fill in for spots and make a big line up(Cato and Willis at 4 and 5 with these 2 to back up). I would rather use either Collier or Langhi in a trade package with Walt to get a legit 4(preferably a player with 1 year left on his contract to have space for Taylor next year). Williams is valuable as a back up to injury prone Rice but with the glut of 3's on the roster he is more expendable. I believe that the Rockets would make a mistake if they cut Lanky because he has shown enough "potential" that I would not be surprised if he stuck with a run and gun team(Mavericks, Suns) and turned into an average(7th,8th man) player. And if he could stick with a team like that then he should be traded to fill the 4 instead of just cut loose. And cutting Collier would be a mistake only because big men are at a premium. Again a trade may be possible...after all in a league where a stiff like Mcllvane can break the bank, a team should be able to get something for Collier. And before people get too down on Collier, just remember who we would've gotten instead--Pryzbilla = a guy who couldn't even get any minutes on a team(Bucks) that was so starved for big men that they used Scott Williams and another stiff (with a name I can't remember) instead. out.
