1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Rosenthal] Rift between Bo Porter and Jeff Luhnow???

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by tellitlikeitis, Aug 29, 2014.

  1. tellitlikeitis

    tellitlikeitis Canceled
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    Messages:
    19,692
    Likes Received:
    10,159
    Apologies if not thread-worthy, because this could be some poop-stirring from Kenny as usual. Interesting developments, if true though.

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Sources: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Astros?src=hash">#Astros</a>' Porter, Luhnow at odds. Story:... <a href="http://t.co/Lg9OMxJ82A">http://t.co/Lg9OMxJ82A</a></p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/statuses/505381161267642368">August 29, 2014</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


    TENSION GROWING BETWEEN ASTROS' MANAGER, GM
    Ken Rosenthal

    The Astros need an intervention. Or maybe something stronger.

    General manager Jeff Luhnow and manager Bo Porter are at odds, according to multiple major-league sources.

    Porter expressed his frustration with Luhnow to owner Jim Crane in a conversation earlier this month, sources said.

    Luhnow and Crane declined comment. Porter also declined comment, saying, “My focus is on managing and finishing the season strong.”

    Porter’s frustration stems from a lack of input and from his belief that Luhnow engages in excessive second-guessing of his in-game management, sources said.

    Losing exacerbates tension for every club, but the Astros appear to be dysfunctional on multiple levels.

    Those critical of Luhnow say that he keeps a small circle, communicating mostly with director of decision sciences Sig Mejdal and others while rarely consulting the team’s on-field staff, executive advisor Nolan Ryan and special assistant to the GM Craig Biggio.

    The Astros hired Luhnow in December 2011 and Porter in September 2012. The lengths of their respective contracts are not known.

    Crane could attempt to broker a peace between Luhnow and Porter, and Ryan’s son -- Astros president of business operations Reid Ryan -- also could play a role in such discussions, sources said.

    But perhaps it is not a surprise that the emotional Porter and deeply analytical Luhnow are proving to be an uncomfortable fit, raising questions about the team’s future leadership.

    Crane expected significant progress after three straight seasons of 106 or more losses, telling reporters shortly before the season started, “I’d love to see us get to .500.”

    The Astros, however, are on pace to finish 68-94 -- 26 games below .500. Only the Rangers, a team decimated by injuries, own a worse record in the AL.

    In late June, Sports Illustrated proclaimed the Astros, “Your 2017 World Series champs,” citing the team’s deep collection of young talent, including three straight No. 1 picks in the amateur draft.

    Since then, the Astros have failed to sign their top 2014 selection, high-school left-hander Brady Aiken, creating a firestorm that, according to sources, added to the strain within the organization.

    The team’s top choice in 2013, Stanford right-hander Mark Appel, also was a subject of controversy, struggling early in the season before showing notable improvement after his promotion to Double A.

    An unannounced visit by Appel to Houston prior to his promotion contributed to the friction between Luhnow and Porter, sources said; Luhnow initially did not make Porter aware that Appel would throw a bullpen session for pitching coach Brent Strom. Porter then had to explain the situation to his players, a number of whom were seething, believing that Appel did not warrant his promotion and was receiving special treatment.

    “I will handle those conversations internally,” Porter said at the time. “Any time something affects your clubhouse, I think as the manager you have to handle it.”

    Appel, after posting a 9.74 ERA in 12 starts for Class A Lancaster, has produced a 3.15 ERA in six starts for Double A Corpus Christi.

    The incident, however, reflected the lack of communication within the Astros’ hierarchy. Rival executives say it is not unusual for a team to summon a prospect for a session with a major-league coach. Porter, though, grew upset because Luhnow did not inform him in advance that Appel would work with Strom.

    The disagreement over Appel was just one flashpoint between Porter and Luhnow, sources said. The question now is whether their relationship can be salvaged – and whether Crane will want to replace one or both.

    Crane might resist any change, not wanting to admit that he made a mistake with either hiring. But it’s difficult to imagine the Astros starting the 2015 season with the same management team.
     
  2. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    48,946
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Stopped reading at Rosenthal.
     
  3. Joshfast

    Joshfast "We're all gonna die" - Billy Sole
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2001
    Messages:
    6,476
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    check you later Bo
     
  4. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    107,246
    Likes Received:
    155,930
    Local rags

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>We've told you often that the Astros are dysfunctional and that many of the folks in uniform bristle at Luhnow at front office.</p>&mdash; Jose de Jesus Ortiz (@OrtizKicks) <a href="https://twitter.com/OrtizKicks/statuses/505389235596427265">August 29, 2014</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>I bet some folks who draw paychecks from MLB will pretend the Appel stuff really wasn't an issue. The players will laugh. Again.</p>&mdash; Jose de Jesus Ortiz (@OrtizKicks) <a href="https://twitter.com/OrtizKicks/statuses/505390318041440256">August 29, 2014</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>“What a joke of a non-story” — <a href="https://twitter.com/keithlaw">@keithlaw</a>, re: Chronicle on Mark Appel dust-up. I’m sure, Keith, you’ve read <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal">@Ken_Rosenthal</a> this morning.</p>&mdash; Evan Drellich (@EvanDrellich) <a href="https://twitter.com/EvanDrellich/statuses/505392311770292224">August 29, 2014</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
    #4 J.R., Aug 29, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2014
  5. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    48,946
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    **** that guy too.
     
  6. Baseballa

    Baseballa Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    972
    I'm not sure when it happened, but all the writers for the Chronicle were pretty obviously asked to stir things up whenever applicable.

    JDJO, Drellich, and Brian T. Smith never EVER miss an opportunity to get dramatic.
     
  7. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    29,286
    Likes Received:
    5,399
    I read that what the team did with Appel is not unusual.
     
  8. boozle222

    boozle222 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,234
    Likes Received:
    155
    Had high hopes for Evan... sadly has gone the was of pessimism and parade raining.
     
  9. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    23,929
    Likes Received:
    13,999
    It would not surprise me if their was a lot of tension between Porter and Luhnow. The Appel thing seems overblown, but it might not be if there was existing tension.
     
  10. MrBear1

    MrBear1 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    467
    Porter isn't the long term answer as manager anyways, I expect Biggio to be in the dugout when this team is competitive again.
     
  11. Rip Van Rocket

    Rip Van Rocket Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    356
    I think Porter deserves to manage major league talent before the Astros give him the boot.
     
  12. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    107,246
    Likes Received:
    155,930
    [rQUOTEr]In a season where the Astros seem incapable for staying out of the headlines for negative and controversial reasons, manager Bo Porter and general manager Jeff Luhnow have been at odds, according to a club source.

    The Chronicle was told this week by a club source of a “heated battle” between Porter and Luhnow, and that Porter recently spoke with the owner about the GM, who is said to have been particularly aggressive in addressing the manager’s in-game moves.

    Porter, Luhnow and Crane did not respond to interview requests.

    Mark Appel’s unannounced visit to Minute Maid Park to throw a bullpen in late July, when he had just been promoted to Class AA Corpus Christi contributed to the escalating problem. Appel came to Minute Maid without Porter’s awareness.

    That was a situation where there was miscommunication between Porter and the front office, said a second source, who was not familiar with any conversation between Porter and Crane. Players were unhappy with Appel’s presence as well, as the Chronicle was the first to report — an arguably childish but nonetheless genuine sentiment.

    Where the Astros go from here is unclear. Just a day earlier, another major national magazine, Bloomberg Businessweek, profiled the front office and noted ” fans will have to wait a little longer to find out if baseball’s most controversial general manager can also become its most successful.”

    Sports Illustrated in June dubbed the Astros the 2017 World Series champions, a headline that drove home to current members of the organization a sentiment that the future, not the present, is what the organization seems most concerned about.

    Brady Aiken, Jacob Nix and Mac Marshall — the three draft picks the Astros did not sign this year — are a black eye for the organization that has yet to clear up because of one grievance, on behalf of Nix, and the possibility of another on behalf of Aiken. Casey Close, one of the game’s leading agents, ripped the Astros’ handling of the situation to both FOXSports.com and MLB.com.

    The team, vocal about its proficiency in technology and proud of its baseball operations database, “Ground Control,” was embarrassed in June when confidential logs of trade talks with other teams were published on the website Deadspin.com.

    There has been on-field improvement this year, but that’s expected and almost impossible to avoid considering how terrible the club was last year in a 111-loss season.

    The Astros entered the year working uphill against a perception the front office had become “the outcast of major league baseball,” as former Astros pitcher Bud Norris told the Chronicle earlier this season.

    Service-time matters and contract extension offers to players who with little or no service time — particularly in the case of George Springer — have drawn attention around baseball as well.

    Seventy wins is a possibility for this year’s club, yet repeated problems in management leave broad questions about 2015.

    http://goo.gl/Mx7HDi[/rQUOTEr]
     
  13. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,947
    Likes Received:
    12,228
    Our players were "seething" over Appel throwing a bullpen session?? Seriously?? That's lame as **** if true. And if not true, **** Ken Rosenthal.
     
  14. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    48,946
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Really **** the Chronicle.

    This is just another opportunity for the haters to bash this organization. It's been a recurring theme for the last few years, typically from the same people (Rosenthal, Gammons, Chronicle). I, for one, am happy that our GM cares about the manager. He's pretty awful, but I'll let bobrek expand on that.
     
  15. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,325
    Likes Received:
    13,209
    I still chuckle that Crane thought this team would/should win 81 games. If Jeff thinks so also, and Bo is being held accountable for falling short of that, then Bo is doomed because the Astros brain trust lives in fantasy land.
     
  16. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,947
    Likes Received:
    12,228
    There is absolutely no way Luhnow thought this team was going to win anything more than 70 this season. He's too smart for that. Crane, on the other hand, can be as delusional as he wants as long as he's willing to spend the money to make the team competitive again when the time comes.
     
  17. Baseballa

    Baseballa Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    972
    If the Astros aren't careful, the author of Moneyball will sue for plagiarism.
     
  18. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    48,078
    Likes Received:
    14,307
    He did break the Aiken "failed physical" story before anybody else did. I bashed it when it first came out because I thought he was purposely trying to make the Astros look bad, but he was right.

    He clearly has a "source" in the front office/clubhouse, so there's going to be some truth to each of his Astros-centric reports.
     
  19. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    107,246
    Likes Received:
    155,930
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Astros owner Jim Crane by text: “You should direct this to Jeff (Luhnow). I have no comment.&quot;</p>&mdash; Evan Drellich (@EvanDrellich) <a href="https://twitter.com/EvanDrellich/statuses/505420994933030913">August 29, 2014</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Jim Crane adds on: “I have not discussed any of what was reported with Bo and told the reporter it was false.&quot;</p>&mdash; Evan Drellich (@EvanDrellich) <a href="https://twitter.com/EvanDrellich/statuses/505422259167584256">August 29, 2014</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
    #19 J.R., Aug 29, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2014
  20. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    48,078
    Likes Received:
    14,307
    Actually, I bet Rosenthal's source is none other than JDJO... so n/m on my previous post (even though he did get the Aiken failed physical right before anybody else).
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now