the Jesus studying Buddhism/Hinduism is something you and I have discussed before...since then, i've spent some time doing a little research on it and haven't found anything to that end... reports Jesus was married...where? contemporary historian accounts?
This book I'm reading (albeit, fiction) has Jesus studying Buddhism/Hinduism. Maybe it comes from some sort of historical background.
maybe...i'd be interested to learn where that's coming from. i have a friend in seminary and i mentioned it to him...he says he never heard of it...i read through what Josephus has to say about Jesus and I didn't find it.
The more I read about religion the less I believe that any form of religion is even remotely accurate. Pedophiles as prophets.....whatever? Virgin birth....Yeah Right. I grow more and more skeptical each and every day. I do believe in god, but being that religion is all man made, I have my doubts. DD
Rimbaud, a big on your conception of the history of the family. I don't really want to argue with you about it, just surprised no one else has given you a wtf was that? response.
Max: Back in college, I read a couple of books written by contemporary theologians on the historical possibility of Jesus being married. It isn't an uncommon theory. As for the Buddhist/Hindu reference, there are quite a few very good references out on the subject. That is also a rather common theory. But, none of those comments were intended as a debate of those theories. IMO, they don't really matter all that much in the context of faith, Christian or otherwise. My point was to demonstrate that all religion is shrouded in myth and there is no fundamental way to prove or disprove it. It is part of the enigma that is religion. That is why we have faith in the first place.
no, no..i didn't see them as debate...hope it didn't come across that way. i'd just like to read that. completely agree that faith has to mean faith...it doesn't have to mean faith in some with zero foundation...but it is faith, nevertheless.
Honestly, I feel very much the same way. The way people fight and kill over the minute difference in some fabled story thousands of years ago is insane. The world might have been a better place if God (who I do believe in, I just question which road leads there if any) had just left the world alone. Through the ages, religion has been a much more successful method of controling and feeding mans evil urges. I also think at times that when we talk about Paradise and Heaven and that they are some sort of mystical reward for doing things a certain way or believing in some stories is not exactly that 'holy'. So let me get this straight, If in my mind i'm a horrible person and simply believe in a story and act in a certain way I get a bigger payout at the end?? What is this like life's Brewster's Millions?? If I do something, it is because I know its right. Right in the framework of my mind, however 20th century perversed it is. I believe that I live my life in a good way. I don't cheat, steal or harm anyone and I respect life and goodness. I give to charity and help people. Sure I might have some fun that's not considered 'holy' but i'm not harming anyone and if my life's not good enough for the diety than i'm fine with that. Who is a better person?? A) The individual that does not believe in God but lives a life helping others and being a good person in his own right. or B) The individual that spends all day in the church because he hears the stories of paradise and so acts in ways so he can have many beautiful women and a life of pleasure. Questions?!?!
this is exactly what many people find so appealing about Christianity...who can measure up to God's standards? who could possibly be holy? even the best of us have skeletons in our closets we're ashamed of. but Christ says, "I love you, anyway." Paul says he loved God...but God loved first...that even while he was a sinner, God showed His love through Christ. That's why I get frustrated with condemnation from the church all the time...it flies in the face of the love of God, as I see it. It's not about measuring up, because I never could!
F. D. Khan, You hit it right on the head, if Religious instutions weren't so focused on control of its people, people will be more satisfied. That's the main problem with the Catholic Church, believe me, from a guy who went to Catholic School for 12 years, all I ever heard was, don't have sex before mariage, go to confession, sit, stand, kneel, blah, blah, blah, I want to wring these guys necks and say HEY IDIOTS, ITS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT SALVATION, not how many times you say the friggin Hail Mary on your Rosary.
absolutely right! but it's not just the Catholics...organized religion as a whole tends to do that. That's why it's key to find a good church...don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, because you can definitely encounter God and grow spiritually at a church...can provide a great outlet for service as well. as my pastor used to say..."yes you can skip church...and go to the golf course...and you COULD worship God there...but will you?"
FD Khan, The person who fulfills part B should also strive to be part A as well. One of the fundamental teachings of Christianity is to love thy neighbor as thyself, which basically means being a good all-around person. I know there is a large part of the religious populous who feel part B is good enough when both A & B should go hand in hand.
Religion was formed to control the masses. Think about it, what better form of birth control is there than saying you are going to Hell if you have premarital sex? More people have been killed in the name of God then of any other human conflict. It just doesn't make sense. Maybe part of the maturation of our species is figuring out that religion is a tool created by man, and that actually God could care less if you worship him/her or not. I tend to think that God just wants you to be a good person, and to learn as much as you can while you are alive. Every time I go to church, and we go quite often as it is good for my kids, the minister asks us to pray for forgiveness of sins that I never committed. Everytime I hear him ask me to ask forgiveness for something I did not do, it just reinforces the hypocrisy that is religion. People have a conscience and I believe that is inspired by God....just use it, be good, and you should be ok. Of course....who really knows? DD
This actually strengthens one of my points. An individual that simply believes and accepts christ irregardless to his actions is a better person than someone who does not believe in God but acts in a manner that is moral and respectful and good?? I think the point of religion is to live a good life. If someone can do that without the proverbial 'carrot' in front of them in the form of paradise should they be reprimanded???
actually...there is a response to grace that buds into good acts like you're talking about. what i'm saying is that ultimately no one can measure up to God...no one is holy. nothing I can do can ever make me worthy of God's grace...He gives it abundantly, anyway. That's love...and my response to that love is seen in acts. That's the way I see it, anyway. as for salvation...i don't make those decisions. I feel called to Jesus Christ...I share that because it's good news...GREAT news actually, as far as I'm concerned. But I'm not about to tell someone they're going to hell. I don't get to make that call...and I'm thankful that's the case! and by the way...thanks for a constructive, honest discussion on this without everyone freaking out! the Bible is full of people dealing with real human emotions and not cloaking them in some sort of piety. David asks God time and time again to just take out his enemies...but God never does. But going through those emotions is honesty...honesty before God...and that's a good thing.
Not to knock around the Catholic Church too much, we also have to remember, the Catholic Church was a dominant world power during Feudalism (sp) really up till the point the peasants moved away from the manors. The problem is that it still operates under the notion of being a political organization. That's one of the reasons that the protestant movement gained so much momentum, and I think the "Born again" movement feeds off the same issue, because the protestant Churches have fallen into the same trap. But I don't believe you have to give up your affiliation with a major sect. I still attend a Catholic Church, you have to find the one that's right for you as MadMax stated.
I thought it was a good post DD, but I have to disagree with just this one point. That's a common line people use but it's not true. WWII, WWI, the American Civil War, The American war for independence, Viet Nam, the Korean war, The Spanish American war, The Spanish Civil War, etc. All were not fought over religion. The fact is that more people have been killed over territory than any other cause. The list of wars over territory and people killed in those wars outnumbers religeous wars by far.
I just encourage everyone to seek out God...whereever that leads you. I really don't want to sound too preachy here...I just get frustrated when people give up on God because of the acts of the church. When someone has had a really bad experience with the church, they have to unlearn some things before they can grow closer to God. Example: a girl i knew used to tell me..."why should we be ashamed of sex? the church says i shouldn't even have sex...that it's dirty and awful and evil. why would I want to believe in a God like that!??" I had to explain that God never said that!! That the church manipulated that. That God was pretty clear about procreation...that He, Himself created sex...that it was an amazing precursor to life...and an amazing bond for the most inimate of relationships. She had to unlearn that to ever feel like she should give God any of her time.
