Ron Paul Responds to TSA: Introduces 'American Traveler Dignity Act'

dude, i actually stopped flying last august.

you are the one going around calling people "mouthbreathers" - is that even an insult? - everyone breathes out of their mouth.

and imo, your position regarding the TSA is cowardly. you actually think having a bunch glorified mall security groping your kids and grandmothers keeps you "safe". if that isnt textbook cowardice i dont know what is.

where have i referenced or cited alex jones? mr. i-think-having-the-government-molest-innocent-americans-keeps-me-safe type.

 

(From my link above) Note that the NIST has contacted the TSA about "mischaracterizing" their work...

Be careful out there.

 

My last post in here.

I admire jo mama's passion. I had that passion when I was younger, too.

But the "all or nothing" "with us or against us" inflexibility of his views makes him no better than the "government" he rails against.

The volatility and vitriol he spews at those who disagree is like discussing abortion with a pro lifer. I'm pro choice so I'm on the side of baby killing, right?

Count the number of times he has stated that he hates those who disagree with him in this thread. Very tolerant. Very 1930's Germany (your term not mine). He can hate me all he wants for disagreeing with him.

His kind of thinking is more dangerous than what we have and he doesn't even know it.

I'm out.

(rhad, you're all right.)

 

i am 36 years old - and if anything i find myself getting more "passionate" and fired up as i get older.

where am i saying "all or nothing" - i have never said that wrt to the TSA. all i have been saying is that they shouldnt be groping, molesting and taking naked pics of innocent americans. that doesnt mean i dont want any security measures taken.

i never said anything about killing babies, but i will say that if you support groping and naked body scanning of innocent americans than you are against the 4th amendment.

across110thstreet said he "hates" people who complain about the TSA so i replied that i "hate" people who support the TSA - how come you single me out when i wasnt even the one who used the term "hate" first?

i dont hate you - i just think you have been terrorized into accepting having a bunch of dropouts fondling your kids and grandmas and it makes me very sad. sad for you and sad for our country. look at what we have become - a nation of scared cowards.

allowing the TSA to continue down the path they are going is dangerous and you should know it.

as i have pointed out multiple times in this thread, the "enhanced patdowns" are totally unnecessary and if anything put travelers in more danger of being the victim of a "terrorist attack" by creating bottlenecks at the gates. if procedures already in place were properly followed 9/11 would have never happened and the underwear bomber would have never made it to the gate. but the response from "authorities" isnt to ensure that in the future they follow procedure...instead they take these hysterical, reactionary measures that amount to nothing more than security theatre to make all the scared cowards feel "safe".

 

Woman arrested for unruly behavior in refusing to either be scanned or let her daughter be fondled

While the story is full of the usual pitfalls and caveats (TSA doing their job, she is belligerent probably beyond necessity, camera-phones were attempted etc), the real interesting bit is the following:

That is sheer propaganda; complete and utter bull****.

 

what on the surface here seems like a big waste of time & money ruse is in fact a cost-effective exercise in taming & training the sheeps for just a bigger & happier glorious police state down the road

 

The woman referred to above (original blog post relaying the incident is here) consulted with a lawyer and was advised that there was little she could do thanks to the draconian nature of the TSA's "authority" to fondle people without their consent at the behest of our fear-mongering dip****s in government.

Unfortunately, this has happened to another woman too who, similarly advised regarding suing, named the TSA agent in question within her blog:

And now the TSA agent has sued her for defamation.

But awesomely, she has not backed down and hopefully the "Barbara Streisand effect" will make this disgusting incident even more public and the rapist TSA agent involved loathe to report to work.

The name of the fingering TSA rapist? Thedala Magee

Enjoy your flight.

 

Man this is silly.

I'm almost at the point where I feel like they should start racially profiling again. After 9/11, I got "randomly selected" for the slightly longer search around 7 or 8 times in a row over the course of two years. Ironically it was somewhat helpful since I got to skip the whole 2 hour line for a search that was a couple of minutes longer than the normal search.

I'm down for going back to that again. In the quest to appear "random" they're searching children, pregnant women and the elderly. Quit that nonsense and just go back to "randomly" selecting people like me.

 

How do these TSA agents show up for work? You've got to have a huge chip on your shoulder to do that job...even more so than a police officer to be a mere puppet of propaganda.

 

This whole issue makes me so angry. I'm flying this fall and I really hope they don't pull my wife over for this search. I will demand to see a warrant and get kicked out before I let them do that.

 

I'm pretty sure they aren't that educated and think they are helping, sadly. After all they get a paycheck for touching people's genitals.

 

The big deal is the money we pump into the TSA.. and for what? Something that a gun in the pilots cockpit wont fix?

Use that money to better our infrastructure, it will create just as many if not more jobs while providing us a better place to live.

 

I can't imagine what I would do if a TSA agent finger-****ed my wife. But you can bet I'd end up in the news.

 

Maybe I am biased, but whenever I go to an airport, the folks in TSA uniforms look to be basically the same group as the People of Walmart.

 

I'm all for just scrapping the security entirely. The odds that you will be on a plane that is hijacked are astronomically low. Having said that, all of the b****ing and moaning about the searches are hilarious. Oh no, some security guard touched my naughty bits while patting me down. Boo freaking hoo. To characterize this as a sexual assault/rape cheapens those terms when they are applied to real victims of sex crimes. You might as well say you were sodomized when you got your prostate checked. What a bunch of crybabies.

 

I'll take the troll bait, even though this post is below my standards for riposte.

What you think regarding the accusation of "rape" is completely immaterial. The federal courts have long interpreted the actions described above as constituting, at a minimum, sexual assault, and potentially rape. The World Health Organization has been even clearer, defining it in 2002 as "physically forced or otherwise coerced penetration - even if slight - of the vulva or anus, using a penis, other body parts, or an object." I presume you feel that such a term should not apply in this instance because of the illusion of consent, as evidenced by your atrociously inept comparison to a prostrate exam.

Although blindingly obvious to any rational individual, I'll explain it for your benefit anyway because I'm feeling generous today: A person signs up for and consents to the intrusion necessary for a prostrate exam. Such is plainly not the case in regards to the TSA, as evidenced by the subject outrage of these instances and many others like them. More to the point, the TSA has refused to provide any details of what is or is not involved in these pat-downs since they (conveniently) view the matter as "Sensitive Security Information". In other words, it's impossible for you to consent, because you have no idea what you're consenting to. Indeed, based on the stories from affected passengers, one might argue that no guidelines or methodology exist at all.

In short, your statement above is fundamentally flawed.
1) The argument that the term rape is inappropriate is dubious, and merely publically reveals your callous sentiment towards victims that don't meet the subjective criteria of your own POV.
2) The comparison to a prostrate exam is plainly inappropriate, and merely publically reveals your ignorance.

 

Cool story bro. Do you think if went and stuck your finger in a woman's vagina against her will you could just say "LOL it's not rape!"

 

you will be told to leave the airport and when you do you will be arrested for improperly leaving a secured area.

 

The World Health Organization's definition would mean that someone can grab a man's junk to their heart's content and it will never be rape. Sometimes an effort to break down a more complex idea to a bright line rule is an exercise best avoided. Also according to that definition, prison guards responsible for cavity searches are the worst serial rapists imaginable. Again, it cheapens the use of the term as applied to real victims to call an over the clothes pat down a rape.

The comparison to a prostate exam is apt because it shows that the context of the physical intrusion is critical in determining the character. The prison guard example above and my response to justtxyank below are non-consent examples that are also not rapes showing that the context is critical.

Just for ****s and giggles, imagine asking a hundred random people who have been through a pat down by airport security whether or not they have been raped (without mentioning airports, pat downs, the TSA, etc.). How many do you think will respond in the affirmative? Of those, how many do you think are talking about their experience with the TSA?

To have fun with statutes, Texas penal code section 22.01(a)(3) states a person commits an offense (assault) if the person intentionally or knowingly causes physical contact with another when the person knows or should reasonably believe that the other will regard the contact as offensive or provocative. A child would surely find a spanking offensive. According to the definition, every child spanked is a victim of an assault by their parents. Sometimes you need to use common sense.

If I am a female government security officer and I am at a high security facility that the woman is trying to enter, I think I could put the edge of my hand against a woman's clothed vulva and say, "LOL it's not rape!" This isn't some creepy guy trying to fingerbang someone on a subway car, it is a search for weapons at an airport.

A cop can do a pat down search if they fear a suspect may have a weapon, for the purpose of officer safety. The suspect has not choice to refuse consent to this search. If a guy did the exact same procedure in a bar, it would be considered sexual assault, but we don't say that every time a cop pats someone down they have been raped. That would be asinine.