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Ron Paul Responds to TSA: Introduces 'American Traveler Dignity Act'

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rtsy, Nov 17, 2010.

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  1. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Member
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    Fraud of a president? I think many liberals have been critical of plenty of Obama's policies including the ones relating to the Patriot Act. I don't see how that makes the President a fraud though.

    Anyway I'm waiting for the consistency from those that oppose having to wait and be embarrassed at an airport to step up and oppose the more serious govt. over reach of torture, gitmo, etc.
     
    #241 FranchiseBlade, Nov 24, 2010
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    It looks like the protests fizzled out.
     
    #242 rocketsjudoka, Nov 24, 2010
  3. DJNICK

    DJNICK Member

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    From what I have been reading, most airports have not been using the scanning machines today and just the classic metal detectors. A lot of people have also chosen different means of transportation for the holidays. Most airports are reporting that the crowds were a lot less than expected and had a lot of empty flights. This could be because people are sick and tired of the TSA or that due to the bad economy and rising tickets prices they have chosen other means of transportation.
     
    #243 DJNICK, Nov 24, 2010
  4. DJNICK

    DJNICK Member

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    #244 DJNICK, Nov 24, 2010
  5. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #245 Cohete Rojo, Nov 24, 2010
  6. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    if these machines and "enhanced" patdowns are so critical to protecting us from the terrorists than why the hell would they not be using them on the busiest travel day of the year?

     
    #246 jo mama, Nov 25, 2010
  7. glynch

    glynch Member

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    I agree the scanners are iritating and it is doubling irritating to think a bundle is being made off these by Michael Chertoff, Bush's ex Homeland Czar who pushed for them. This aside from the fact that it is doubtful they help that much etc. There are some good reasons to oppose these scanners and hystria.
    However,

    There seems to be a concerted effort to make this a poster child throw-a-way issue for libertarians and conservatives who want to distract people from the ball of getting back to a middle class type modern nation. (Sort of like the weeks of preoccupation with some nut-job Flordia paster and a now forgotten NYC Mosque?)

    Billionaire libertaraian Koch money may behind trying to make this the big issue for a nation in which the fortune of the Koch Brothers and the Walton family excedes that of the lowest 100 to 125 million Americans. In adition the usual neo-con Muslim hating types are trying also to use this issue to get their beloved Israeli style profiling as a substitute.

    The original article and research suggesting this. This article is flawed by the lengthy ad hominem attack on Mark Tynew the libertarian "Don't touch my junk" guyl http://www.thenation.com/article/15...d-koch-funded-libertarians-behind-tsa-scandal

    The inestimableglen Greewald correctly calls them to task on their attack on Tynem, but much of the original article seems correct.

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/11/24/tyner/index.html
     
    #247 glynch, Nov 25, 2010
  8. bnb

    bnb Member

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    seems most of the outrage is coming from the civil liberties crowd rather then the evil conservatives or libertarians?

    This one's for you rhad. Happy thanksgiving brudder -- sorry your date with TSA was a let down...

    [​IMG]
     
    #248 bnb, Nov 25, 2010
  9. glynch

    glynch Member

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    bnb, a great cartoon!!
     
    #249 glynch, Nov 25, 2010
  10. rtsy

    rtsy Member

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    Happy Thanksgiving.

    <object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oOGq_1710U4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oOGq_1710U4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object>
     
    #250 rtsy, Nov 25, 2010
  11. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    Sooooo....they DIDNT use them and ur STILL angry....hmmm...

    Make up ur mind dude....is he gonna ***** or is he gonna kill us?
     
    #251 NJRocket, Nov 26, 2010
  12. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    soooo...u claim they are necessary to protect us from the terrorists and they didnt use them and u still feel safe?

    make up ur mind tool. do we need them or not?
     
    #252 jo mama, Nov 27, 2010
  13. rtsy

    rtsy Member

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    The Real Threat to America
    By ROGER COHEN http://tinyurl.com/2dv9q8a
    The New York Times

    LONDON — The full-body scanners and intrusive pat-downs that are fast becoming the norm at U.S. airports — just in time for Thanksgiving! — do at least provide the answer to what should be done with Osama bin Laden if he’s ever captured: Rotate him in perpetuity through this security hell, “groin checks” and all.

    He’ll crumple fast and wonder that 19 young guys in four planes could so warp the nervous system of the world’s most powerful nation that it has empowered zealous bureaucrats to trample on the liberties for which Americans give thanks this week.

    In his stupor, arms raised as his body gets “imaged,” arms outstretched through “enhanced” patting, bin Laden might also wonder at just how stupid it is to assemble huge crowds at the Transportation Security Administration’s airport checkpoints, as if hundreds of people on planes were the only hundreds of people who make plausible targets for terrorists.

    It seems Abdulmutallab, a name T.S.A. agents must now memorize, is to blame. Abdulmutallab is the failed Nigerian “underwear bomber” of last Christmas. He joins the failed shoe bomber and failed shampoo-and-bottled-water bombers in a remarkable success: adding another blanket layer of T.S.A checks, including dubious gropes, to the daily humiliations of travelers.

    Whether or not these explosive devices were ever actually operable remains a matter of dispute, just as it remains a mystery that the enemy — if as powerful as portrayed — has not contrived a single terrorist act on U.S. soil since 9/11. What is not in doubt is an old rule: Give a bureaucrat a big stick and a big budget, allow said bureaucrat to trade in the limitless currency of human anxiety, and the masses will soon be intimidated by the Department of Fear.

    Lavrenti Beria, Stalin’s notorious secret police chief, once said, “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.” The T.S.A. seems to operate on the basis of an adapted maxim: “Show me the security check and I’ll find you the excuse.”

    Anyone who has watched T.S.A. agents spending 10 minutes patting down 80-year-old grandmothers, or seen dismayed youths being ordered back into the scanner booth by agents connected wirelessly to other invisible agents gazing at images of these people in a state of near-nakedness, has to ask: What form of group madness is it that forsakes judgment and discernment for process run amok?

    I don’t doubt the patriotism of the Americans involved in keeping the country safe, nor do I discount the threat, but I am sure of this: The unfettered growth of the Department of Homeland Security and the T.S.A. represent a greater long-term threat to the prosperity, character and wellbeing of the United States than a few madmen in the valleys of Waziristan or the voids of Yemen.

    America is a nation of openness, boldness and risk-taking. Close this nation, cow it, constrict it and you unravel its magic.

    There are now about 400 full-body scanners, set to grow to 1,000 next year. One of the people pushing them most energetically is Michael Chertoff, the former Secretary of Homeland Security.

    He’s the co-founder and managing principal of the Chertoff Group, which provides security advice. One of its clients is California-based Rapiscan Systems, part of the OSI Systems corporation, that makes many of the “whole body” scanners being installed.

    Chertoff has recently been busy rubbishing Martin Broughton, the wise British Airways chairman who said many security checks were redundant — calling him “ill-informed.” Early this year Chertoff called on Congress to “fund a large-scale deployment of next-generation systems.”

    Rapiscan and its adviser the Chertoff Group will certainly profit from the deployment underway (some of the machines were bought with funds from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act). Americans as a whole will not.

    Rapiscan: Say the name slowly. It conjures up a sinister science fiction. When a government has a right to invade the bodies of its citizens, security has trumped freedom.

    Intelligence has improved beyond measure since 9/11. It can be used far more effectively at airports. Instead of humiliating everyone, focus on the very small proportion of travelers who might present a threat.

    You can’t talk down fear simply by calling terrorists “violent extremists,” or getting rid of the color-coded terrorism alert system, as the Obama administration has done. During the Bosnian war, besieged Sarajevans had a word — “inat” — for the contempt-c*m-spite they showed barbarous gunners on the hills by dressing and carrying on as normal. Inat is what Americans should show the jihadist cave-dwellers.

    So I give thanks this week for the Fourth Amendment: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

    I give thanks for Benjamin Franklin’s words after the 1787 Constitutional Convention describing the results of its deliberations: “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

    To keep it, push back against enhanced patting, Chertoff’s naked-screening and the sinister drumbeat of fear.
     
    #253 rtsy, Nov 27, 2010
  14. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    dude...i never said we NEEDED anything. Do I think that they help? Yes. The point of my arguments is that im ok with them doing whatever it is they feel necessary to screen people before boarding a plane.

    Why do u care if I feel safe or not? Worry about yourself....and since u said you wont be flying anytime soon, then u really dont need to be here arguing a point on MY behalf. You are wasting your time and energy. The fact that u keep comparing the screeners to child molesters and nazis is proof enuf that u truly dont have a clue.

    No one is making u fly...therefore, u and ur kids wont be targeted by all the "perverts" as u call them
     
    #254 NJRocket, Nov 27, 2010
  15. Refman

    Refman Member

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    Where does it say that you have the right to fly? Nowhere.

    You have a right to travel, so if you want to exercise that right, buy a team of horses and a wagon. I promise nobody will touch your junk on the Oregon Trail.

    Flying is a privilege. If you want to drive, you get a license and obey traffic laws. If you want to fly, you submit to security.

    It is sad that even after 9/11, people do not want to take airport security seriously. What will it take?

    I, for one, do not want to take that chance. Screening everybody gives us the best chance to avert disaster.
     
    #255 Refman, Nov 27, 2010
    1 person likes this.
  16. rtsy

    rtsy Member

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    Funny, only commercial, not private aircraft are subject to TSA screening. Passengers only have to submit on security on commercial planes. I guess we are not taking security seriously enough... It's like saying anyone can ride in a car but you have to spread your buttcheeks to take the bus.
     
    #256 rtsy, Nov 27, 2010
  17. Classic

    Classic Member

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    At least George W Bush and co. are making tons of cash off this. Still chasing the bogey man in the name of 'safety' I see while Bush's cronies continue to rake it in on the government contracts. Hell of a pension. I'm surprised the anti-bush crowd doesn't see this garbage for what it really is-using the threat of terrorism to reap government contracts. This 'safety measure' is no different than why we went to war in Iraq-so Bush's buds could make $$.
     
    #257 Classic, Nov 27, 2010
  18. Kim

    Kim Member

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    Reading this part makes it sound cool, but I'm not sure if I buy it. We're trying not to become like Israel right? That's where there's always security everywhere. And further than that, we don't want America to be like so Orwellian sci-fi movie. I get all that. But is this full body scanner or pat down at the airport "unfettered growth of the DHS or TSA"? Blowing up planes is a real threat to long-term prosperity for this country. Having someone touch your junk outside your pants isn't. People are acting like TSA agents want to touch us. If I'm TSA, I'd hate to touch Ron Paul or the 99% of this ugly ass population, but it's my damn job.

    I agree that America is a nation of openness. I would hate martial law. Tough airport security is not closing the nation. Just an opinion.
     
    #258 Kim, Nov 27, 2010
  19. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    not "angry" at all...on the contrary, im happy that obama and the TSA caved into the overwhelming public pressure.

    it was truly a victory for common sense, basic human dignity and "civil liberties aholes" everywhere!
     
    #259 jo mama, Nov 27, 2010
  20. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    well u said body scanners are necessary to prevent u from getting blown up and that they make u "feel" more secure. so again, did it anger u that they didnt take your security seriously when they turned off the body scanners on the busiest travel day of the year?

    i dont.

    u should take your own advice there chet. u r the one who has been so concerned w/ our modes of travel now that we arent flying. how many times in this thread have u suggested train travel to one of us "civil liberties aholes"?

    im not arguing any point on your behalf. get over yourself.

    ha - you continually tell me to "worry about myself", but here you are once again worrying about me...hypocrite. :rolleyes:
     
    #260 jo mama, Nov 27, 2010
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