The point is that we need players that move without the ball, creative penetrating types, that is not Artest. He has a great one on one game.....but IMHO, his game does not translate well to a TMac and Yao game. I would rather have an athletic slasher if we are going to trade Battier, and preferably one that is not known as a knucklehead. DD
I suggest you watch Artest more often. He really does destroy offensive chemistry and neither Tracy, Yao or Adelman would know what to do with him. His personality is stronger than all three of theirs put together. He was dominating down the stretch against us and almost single-handedly won the game for the Kings before Novak hit that shot. Don't let that fool you. If you watch Artest at other times, he plays very unmotivated and borderline lazy. There are times when his head is clearly on another planet. The guy is an incredible tease who shows up just often enough to tantalize. The best case scenario for the team who gets him in a trade would be for the trade to happen near the deadline, not during the summer.
wow....talk about being selfish and egotistical. He has only concerns with himself, and not the feelings of anyone else, including his teammates fo the Kings, Reggie Theus, and the Sacramento fanbase. What a jerk! This guys is truely rediculous when he said he didn't opt out so that the Kings can get something in return. What a frekin hypocrite. He agent obviously told him not to opt out (to which he agrees at the time) because there isn't enough money in the free agency market on a good team that will take his mercurial behavior. His agent obviously figured Artest can get a better deal by being signed and traded, because in that case the team trading for him will acquire his Bird rights and be able to esign him at a rate much higher than the mid-level. So how can you, artest, become mad at your own stupid decisions when you suddenly see that good teams have unexpected cap room driven by baron and elton's opt out? I suggest Mr. Artest you to STFU. I think we should all dispise ron artest because this guy is truely a quitter. He quits on every team he is on. quits on his teammate. quits on his own commitments. This whole drama just showed artest isn't worth it for any contending team, his character and ego is likely going to be a disruption to any team he is on. i don't think us Rockets fan deserve to be exposed to the disruption by Artest. It's just not worth it. I'd rather have battier. God, I hope the Lakers trade for him and have their ass reuined by Artest just like what happened to the Pacers. Go do your thing, Mr. Artest!
A smart team realizes when they need a piece to get over the hump. The Lakers have realized it along with the rest of the WC pantheon, hopefully the Rockets do too; it's not exactly as if Artest self-destructing will blow up a championship team or even a second round team. Not terribly much to lose here...and a whole lot to gain.
this point may be valid if artest had no history with adelman. however, they do have prior history, and there seems to be mutual respect between the two. i believe that artest inserted into a locker room with tmac, yao, scola, deke (maybe) would be committed and focused to the team. artest is a nutcase, there is no disputing that. but i think that circumstances must be considered. in indiana you had stephen jackson, and in sacramento you had a team that was once a lock for the playoffs and is now trading away their assets (bibby) and drafting in the lottery. if trading for artest requires battier, brooks + filler/picks i am absolutely on board.
Artest has sold out his teamates and organization at every stop, and has not been a winner or leader, more of a cancerous distraction...everywhere. I do not want him taking a leadership role on the Rockets......sure he has skills, but they don't translate well to this team, and I doubt seriously the Maloofs have any interest at all in helping Adelman..... To me, asking for Artest is like me pining for V-Span to come back, it ain't happening. Well of course add him if you can get him for expiring contracts, but trading any starter or significant player is a LOT to lose and risk, this team has great chemistry and will be even better under Adelman's system in year 2. I think many people are overvaluing Artest and undervaluing chemistry.... Just say no to JR Rider part deaux. DD
Great point...if we make this move you have to bring back deke in order to have good influences...A guy like deke inspires people...artest seems like a good person that just has a lot of demons...maybe pairing him up with guys like deke and yao will do him some good...
We need guys that can create their own shots. That is what Artest would bring. You have to factor in the injury possibility of Yao and T-Mac. If either, or even both go down, we need somebody to step up and carry the load. Barry isn't that good to do that. He loves our coach and I feel Rick would be able to control him. Plus, its only one year left. If It doesn't work out, we can always trade him since he is expiring, free him up for cap space at the end of the season or do a sign and trade next off season.
i dont know about this DD................. remember he has played in THIS sytem............... with THIS coach............ and the results were some of the best years he has had as a professional....and he didnt implode or explode either........ he usually is a ball stopper....but adelmen knows how to use him and it would be a thing of beauty for him to have all those toys to play with this season.....
Look, if you can get him for expiring contracts....great...but not for any rotation player....he is just too risky. Different team, and they did not have Tmac and Yao.....different situation entirely. By the way, how did that Artest led team fare? The defense rests. DD
DD, you make some solid arguments for not getting Artest. His style of play, his "character", etc. not being a fit are all potentially valid. But the above argument makes no sense. Plenty of players have never led their team to anything. Plenty of good players. Even a fair number of great players. Sometimes things change and those players become "winners" - quoted because surely in TEAM sports that is as much about the team as the individual player. You don't have to g back very far to find an entire team of "not winners", or players that made no sense. Rasheed, Chauncy...heck, Ben Wallace was overlooked. Rasheed is the obvious example. But there are others throughout NBA history. Heck, the Rockets have even had their own, less talented, potentially crazier, teammate on a championship team before = Vernon Maxwell. Point is, if Artest joins the Celtics next year and they win again, all of a sudden he's a winner? Sure. You would then argue that it wasn't Artest who led that team to a win...BUT, that's not what anyone is asking him to do on the Rockets. You can then argue that well, that's all good, but you're concerned that Yao and T-Mac also don't have a "winning" history, and you need at least 1 player to "lead". Except the Celtics disproved that. None of KG, Pierce or Allen could have ever been called "winners" - it worked for them, though...real well. Artest alone isn't, can't be, and won't ever lead a team to "wins" - just a fact. That doesn't mean he won't ever be a major part of a winning team - he may, he may not. As for his fit with the team - I agree that he isn't the ideal on the court teammate, but I think he is a clear upgrade and not nearly as bad as you make it out. He can be a ballstopper, but he also has consistently put up decent assist numbers. What's more, I think T-Mac is much more of a willing distributor and less of a "I need this many shots per game" type guy as people make him out. He takes a lot of shots...BECAUSE what's the other option? And he has proven he can be a dynamic scorer. The concerns you have is the 1 year left on the contract and the higher than normal chance he blows up off the court, which are valid. But as many have mentioned, what's the real risk? Blowing up a team that can't get out of the first round? That's a risk you should be willing to take.
Jay, The Artest led team was a bit of a wink wink, because Adelman was fired from the Kings when Artest was there. But if you want to talk about leadership and Artest....IMHO, the Rockets are in a leadership transitional stage, where the mantle is being passed from Tmac to Yao....I think Yao will make a fine leader, and is just beginning to accept that role, the last thing I want to do is bring in an UBER strong personality like Artest to gum up that transition.....we don't need it....we have our Tim Duncan, let's find good guys to surround him with.... I honestly think that Artest is a cancer, a distraction, and is prone to just going off the deep end. To me, if you are desperate you try to get him, the Rockets are far from desperate..... You don't see the Spurs reaching for Knuckleheads.....neither should we. Ron Artest = JR Rider a talented tormented player.....but NOT worth the risk. DD
artest played with bibby and brad miller -- he was arguably _the_ guy. so yes, it is a different situation altogether because with yao & tmac he would have a different role. it would not be an "artest led" team. the reason why im in favor of trading battier for artest is that he can guard the wades, lebrons, the dirks like battier did. i believe that battier is a crucial piece of our team and if we do trade him, we better have a defensive replacement for him. as far as artests' playoff success with the kings, its no better than the rockets'. you can believe that adelman was fired because of artest because it supports your argument or you can belive that he was fired because theyre in a rebuilding phase. do you believe norm chow was fired because of vince young?
Artest has a bad rep. However when he played for Adelman and was ona winning team with him, did he change his mind or lose the plot? Answer is no. I would however be hesitant to get rid of Scola for him. Maybe we can convince the Kings they need young talent and expiring contracts?
But personalities mix and mash, and stronger one's prevail, ever hear the saying, too many cooks spoil the broth? That is what I think about Artest, he is a headcase, and a knucklehead, but he is also a VERY strong personality......that can be totally cancerous on a team that is in a leadership transition period, like I believe the Rockets are in...... I hear ya, and Artest is certainly a MUCH better player than Shane, but is he a better fit? I just think Ron Ron is one blow up away from being out of the league......he is just the definition of risk, and to me you don't take on that much risk when you are coming off a 55-27 injury riddled year.... The team would probably have been the number 1 seed in the toughest Western Conference of all time, why take on that kind of risk.....Brent Barry already makes them better......I would just not take that risk. No, I think Adelman was fired because his relationship with the Maloof's soured..... But I do think Norm Chow was fired because of Vince...so maybe I am missing your point. DD
chemistry, player attitude, style of play etc. are all important...but....seriously Artest is bettter than anyone on our team not name Tmac or Yao. If you can get him for a reasonable deal you just do it and ask questions later. I think its a little obvious people are letting their own personal feelings of him cloud their perception of his skill. He's may not be the best at moving without the ball but he can create for himself and others, he can shoot, he can post, he can pass, he's an elite defender. I just think the "cancerous" stigma has proven to be wrong on so many occasions with other guys like him that its comical. Sure if you're the spurs and you have proven to be able to win championships w/o knuckleheads, fine but for a team that hasn't been out of the 1st round we should all be happy if a player of Artest's caliber came here in any reasonable trade.
What encourages me is that Adelman coached Artest and would have an informed opinion to pass along to Morey. If Adelman thought highly enough of Artest to go along with moving a big package like Battier and Brooks for him, then I would support the trade. I just think that Artest is too much a of head case to risk a lot to get him. I think the Lakers moving Odom for Artest would be pretty risky, too. Everybody assumes that Bynum is going to come back at a high level, but the injury is clearly worse than many realized and we don't know how he would mesh with Gasol. Odom was a damn good rebounder and the offense really flowed with his ability to pass and create from the 4 spot. With Turiaf likely going to Golden State, the Lakers wouldn't be as imposing in the front court. Sure, Artest would add some defensive grit and attitude, but it's not like he made the Kings into a defensive powerhouse. With Artest and Bryant the Lakers would have two ball hogging wing players who have a tendency to slow down offenses as much as they hit big shots. The Lakers were at their best last year when their offense flowed and created mismatches with their front line. The proposed Artest trade would remove some of this. I am not saying the Lakers shouldn't make the trade, even, but it's not a slam dunk, either. Artest might lift them over the top, but he also might turn into a distraction. The same thing could be said for any team trying to pick him up. Knowing the Maloofs, I wouldn't be surprised if they were pushing to trade him to the Knicks. Maybe a package around David Lee would do it.
