Ron Artest: All Heart, All Courage, All Warier!

The Rockets' biggest need is at PG, no question, so I think if you could get a player of Artest's quality at PG you'd pretty much have to trade.

In terms of skill set I think DD's right in that there is some overlap between Artest and T-Mac and Battier. That said, I'd rather trade T-Mac since Artest is much more ferocious about going to the hoop and he can actually shoot the three. He's a much better defender than T-Mac as well and makes a lot less money.

Artest is also a lot better about passing the ball now compared to earlier in the season.

In terms of intangibles I do think Artest brings a certain leadership quality and a toughness the Rockets haven't had until now.

 

The problem with our perception with Tmac is that we think he can give us more when he is hurt. He's just not made up that way, like Ron. Too different people. Organization needs to figure out how to get the most from Tmac.

When I live in Orlando, Tmac did the same thing. It went unnoticed because he was lighting up the scoreboard on a bad team. Check Orlando Sentinel for a history on Tmac.

 

Lets look at the objective evidence as to whether Ron Artest somehow is a bad fit with either Battier or McGrady, shall we?


First, lets define what a "good fit" is and what a "bad fit" is.

Presumably, players A and B are a good fit with each other if the team is generally more efficient when both of them are on the floor at the same time than they are when only A or only B is on the floor.

On the other hand, if players A and B are not a good fit with each other, and are instead cramping each other's style (despite perhaps each being talented) then presumably the team's efficiency would be higher when only A or only B is on the floor than when both of them are on the floor because each of them would presumably play better with other teammates who are better "fits."

Also, a good way to measure efficiency is the rate at which your team outscores the opponent (or is outscored by the opponent) when the particular player, or combination of player is on the floor. Something like a net "margin" per minute or per possession would work.

Based on the avaliable information, there is simply no evidence that Ron is stepping on either Battier or McGrady's toes.

In fact, it appears that the Ron/Tracy combo is more efficient than either Ron or Tracy by himself. The Ron/Shane combo is also more effiency than either Ron or Shane by himself.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=2&season=22008&split=9&team=Rockets

 

I think this is a valid argument, let's see what happens when all three are back because right now, only 2 of the three have played together at any given time.

By the way, Artest misses just about as many games a year as Tmac does.

Ron's career stats

DD

 

Carl Herrera,

While I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory that Artest doesn't fit on the starting squad, your logic is has a big hole in it. It's not what the +/- shows; it is whether the +/- should be better. Also, our chemistry is completely messed up with injuries, anyhow. So nothing is really the way it should be or could be.

on another note: I'm increasingly miffed how Artest is often described as inconsistent, when it looks to me like the ankle is what is contributing to that the most. Some games he can't do it. He can't jump. Can't cut fast on defense, etc. Other games he feels better. This is really no different than how Ginobody is greatly affected by his bum ankles each year.

 

A fair enough point about the ankle. And I would love to have Ginobli on the Rockets....would trade Battier, or Artest, and maybe even Tmac for him....one of them for sure.....that guy plays hard and aggressive all the time.

DD

 

That's just not a fair assessment. Ron missed most of those games due to suspensions, and I think some of the suspensions were way too harsh in the first place.

 

They are better together than they are individually. Admittedly, that's a smaller sample... Also, perhaps a Ron/Ray Allen or Tracy/Michael Redd combo would be better than Tracy/Ron (and perhaps not), but the point is, the Ron/Tracy stats have been decent enough and not exactly the "problem area" that needs urgent attention.

Based on the limited sample (tained by injuries and what not)... it seems, so far, these guys have worked well enough together.

 

I was not talking about the year he was suspended, but how can you exclude suspensions? If he is not playing, he is not playing.....

Tmac for Ginobli, I seem to recall a certain poster who had a thread like that.....lol

DD

 

Unlike injuries - suspensions are not chronic and do not become increasingly likely as players age.

 

I would call a surgically repaired knee more than just "a sore knee". Also TMac played it out until Battier got back, Artest is doing the same.

 

Rightfully so I would say.

Artest for captain!

 

There is that lie again...."surgically repaired"

He only had a FRICKEN SCOPE people.......ugh why bother.

DD

 

When will yall get off Tmac's back?? Why would yall want him to play the way he was. He was not productive most of the time. Would yall rather have 1-11 nights? Would yall want our defense to be much worse because he can't keep up with anybody on his knee?

Tmac played until Battier came back, because Barry is old, Luther is useless, and Wafer was not proven contributor in the NBA yet. Now Artest said he's planning on doing the same thing once Tmac gets back from his injury. Just take some time off to heal up so he can be healthy when it counts. I don't see how there's much difference.

Tmac played on his bad knee for 3 weeks. Ron Artest will play on his bad ankle for about a month before Tmac comes back.

I'm not taking anything away from Ron Artest. What he's doing now is great. Its hard to be able to play defense the way he has been on a bad ankle. I'm glad he is willing to wait until Tmac comes back, but honestly if it hurt him that bad, AND he was hurting our team, then I would rather him sit out right now as well.

However, just because doctors say Tmac playing on his knee won't make it worse, doesn't mean that he will not hurt the team. It in the Rockets best interest that Tmac rehabs his knee back to full strength outside of games. He's played through injuries before. He had really bad back spasms (even Larry Bird had trouble playing through that), he has an arthritic shoulder, he had elbow trouble last year, and then last year he was getting his knee drained just to be able to play, because thats how bad the swelling got due to the injury on his knee.

I know Tmac and Ron Artest are different personalities, but that doesn't mean Tmac doesn't play through injuries or he isn't a great player.


I would love to see all of you guys who've probably never played a full court game of basketball in your lives, try to play through a knee injury and be productive. It aint easy for anybody. Know that each of us are built differently and each injury is unique to that person. Honestly, I sprained my ankle 2 months ago playing basketball and its still not 100%. For these guys to be able to do what they do on a nightly basis through injuries and to be able to recover quickly is amazing.

You can't ever question another man's injury. That is one of the biggest insults you could ever make about a person. It just aint right. Tmac doesn't deserve that. He can't help that he is injury prone. Yall complain about his contract....well remember this, technically we are the ones paying him the 21 million a year. Get off his case...

 

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Bump for Tru Warier.

 

Ron is exactly epitomizes the toughness and attitude this team has needed for years.

and

DD thinks we should trade him


I am sorry, but we need Artest just as bad as we do T-mac, and that would only sound silly right now because T-mac appears useless right now.