Yeah, I am afraid....LOL..come on...dude...this is an internet message board, your thread is not the first nor last to be hijacked by discussions...it is what a BBS is for.... If you want to build a nice little BBS where threads are not allowed to wander, go ahead...but watch it die a quick death. I already admitted my mistake in continuing the discussion.....I guess just tossing out the "I would trade him comment" is simply the truth....and the truth was when I made that post last night I was 3/4s of the way into a bottle of good Chardonay..... And since we are discussing Artest......but whatever...... DD
Don't want to ruin the kissing fest, but but .... If MRI comes back and says Ron injured himself because he didn't shut it down soon enough, and out for the rest of the season, will you guys still love that he played? Huh? Remember Yao played through his pain last year and out for the year, what was your reaction to that? Huh? Not saying Ron is not warrior, not saying that I am not inspired. But when I calm down, and think like an adult, I feel him playing through bad ankle might not be a wise thing to do.
Your conclusions are more or less based on very shallow and meaningless basketball jargon and not exactly what is happening on the court. "Ron is great on defense. So is Shane." What does that mean? So because theyre both great on defense, they don't mix well. That is very poor analysis. Its really as simple as watching last nights game in order to understand that they're both versatile enough on defense to be able to complement eachother. Ron is a stronger, quicker defender that can create turnovers and bad shots with his aggresiveness..Shane is more of a team defender who relies on his understanding of what teams are trying to do. He bates players in to bad shots, he filters players into Yao's lap, and he recognizes when a player away from the ball is going to the basket and he helps off of his man to defend it. "Ron needs the ball to be effective, so does Tmac"...Another statement that is not backed up by what is happening on the court. I've seen both be extremely effective off the ball this year when they have had to, and I've seen both create plays off the dribble when theyve had to as well...It all depends on the matchup or the situation. Both Tracy and Ron can be effective on the catch and shoot from the perimeter, and they both do a good job of feeding the post. I've also seen both players run off of screens to get open for catch and shoot as well. For the positions that they play oj the court, thats what theyre going to be asked to do away from the ball. Are both players good when they have the ball in theeir hands? Yes. But that doesnt mean they "need the ball to be effective". If that were the case, then why is Yao Ming getting more touches in the post than Mcgrady and Artest are getting on the perimeter? Its just not true. "Ron's ability to bogart his way to the basket is negated by having a big 7foot 6" guy in his way....Shane spaces the floor and moves without the ball better." You contradict yourself here. You say you want to add a PG that penetrates and gets inside, yet that in no way will be negated by having Yao in the paint? How is it any different when Artest gets into the lane? It's not different, except if teams don't double ron, he will probably score better than any PG would. I would also argue that artest spaces the floor and moves the ball around equally as well as shane does. He has hit a high percentage of his threes, and he has shown a willingness to make the extra pass to get the best shot for his team. Why can't we have two players that do this? It can only mean positive things for Yao. Perhaps the biggest flaw in your argument is claiming that replacing Rafer with another PG would somehow make us a better 3 point shooting team. For the year Alston is hitting about 38 percent of his threes. In the past few weeks, he has been lights out from 3. He can hit that shot. Is he inconsistant? yes. But Rafer shooting threes is a big part of our offense, and I doubt it would get any bigger by replacing him with a player that shoots a lower percentage from 3. I understand your frustrations with Rafer. They do leave him open and he doesnt always knock it down, but he knocks it down enough for us to win games. If needing a top flight PG is so important, then why did the Lakers get to the finals last year with derek fisher, who is a jump shooting PG like rafer that averages less points, less assists and only hits about 40 percent of his shots? Doesn't seem to be bothering that team so much.
LOL - whatever dude...just say you don't understand chemistry, team building and basketball, and have a casual fan's perspective. All joshing aside, we just disagree.....Ron is playing ok...without Tmac.......let's see how he does when Tmac gets back.... For the record, I would love to be wrong and Ron fits in perfectly. DD
Something tells me it would take something like an NBA championship for you to admit that you were wrong. Thats unfair as far as I'm concerned. If Ron makes us a better team and helps us get past the first round, IMO he fit in.
I agree with you to a point, a championship is what I am after. I just think we have too big a whole at the PG position, and it reminds me of the Barkley, Dream, Drexler team....where we had 3 great players, but they just did not completely fit in together. Sure we got past the first round and to the WC finals, but not enough to get all the way home. But, again....I am hoping for the best.... DD
Whatever you want to say. I just think you're thinking negatively for some reason, and you jumped to you conclusion way too quickly. I don't doubt that youre a fan that understands the game, I just doubt your knowledge of what truly makes a winning team what it is. Maybe in your pickup games a guy like Hinrich would = alot of wins, but in the NBA its mainly about talent and matchups. Chemistry matters, but without talent, youre basically stuck being van gundy's rockets. Good, but not good enough. Chemistry helped the Celtics win a title last year, but there was no way they developed that chemistry in the first month of the season. They developed it over time. Talent came first, chemistry and team building came over time. With ron we solve our main problem which has been lack of talent.
That wasnt your initial argument. Your initial argument was that hinrich would make us a better team, and that is what i disagree with. I dont know if this team can win a championship either.
I still think that.....because Hinrich would replace Rafer completely.....fixing a glaring weakness. Whatever...we disagree. DD
I'm glad you guys kissed and made up, But If I had to go into battle with one, it wouldn't be Mcgrady, it would have to be Tru Warrior. If Yao, Tracy and Ron don't fit together, Tracy has to go. Ron/Yao play and complement each other better than Mcgrady/Yao. Mcgrady and Yao chemistry has never been really good together, when Yao sits Tracy plays well and when Tracy sits Yao seems to play well, but they rarely seem to both have great games on the same night. Last night in the 4th, Yao and Ron seemed to play well with each other in the game and both came up big.
I think Bullard referred to that way of thinking as "larry brown syndrome" Focusing so hard on your weaknesses, that you fail to recognize strengths. IMO you win by be stronger than your opponent...you dont win by covering up every potential weakness that you may have.
Matt Bullard or Larry Brown, which one do you think knows more about basketball? As for strengths that is my point we are already strong at the wing with Tmac and Battier.....now we have 3 strong wing players......where there is only room for 2......why not trade one of them to fix a weakness...leaving us still strong but now in 2 positions. Again I would trade TMac before Ron, but I don't think his contract is tradeable right now and Artest's is....so.....that is why I would do it. I would even consider Battier....for the right player....but he is signed to a relatively cheap contract going forward. DD
because on his worst day, ron artest is still a stronger option than any alternative youve come up with.
If he could play the PG position we would be in agreement. I think I see our disconnect, you are strictly looking at it from a talent perspective whereas I am looking at it from an overall roster perspective. DD
Well putting your theory to use, a team like Atlanta should be better than a team like the Spurs. Atlanta has pretty solid players at every position while the spurs start roger mason and oberto. I dont here any spurs fans complaining about parker and ginobilli being similar players... both great offensive players who play like SGs who need the ball to be successful.
LOL - you are not even coming close to an apples to apples argument....both Ginobli and Parker are penetrating players who can pass the ball to each other, they fit perfectly together. Both can shoot jumpers off the others penetration, both can penetrate and score or pass to set up teamates. That is what the Rockets lack, a 2nd penetrating player to play with Tmac.... Don't you think we have derailed this thread enough? Ron played well last night.....let's hope he keeps it up. DD PS. Both Atlanta and the Spurs are 12-8...just kidding ....
We saw last year and the year before and the year before. Injury prone players miss games. Hinrich has basically had an output equivalent to that of Alston last year. Please elaborate exactly what your basis for this conclusion is. And what I'm saying is "excess" doesn't count when the "excess" is on the bench in street clothes. The Rockets don't have an excess of what Artest gives them and subtracting him from the equation creates an even bigger hole which you have not found a way to fill.
im just really confused by some of the things you say...like what makes artest so incapable of passing the ball to mcgrady and vice versa? They are both very good passers...If you add up their career assist totals, i doubt it would be much diffferent. I think youre choosing style over substance.
I understand what you are saying, it makes perfect sense if you believe injuries are a given. I do not.....even though I concede that they have happened the last few years. DD
