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Romney's Tax Plan

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by CometsWin, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Romnesia and bad math like peanut butter and jelly, they just go together.

    Tax Policy Center in Spotlight for Its Romney Study

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tax-policy-center-spotlight-romney-173604062.html

    WASHINGTON — A small nonpartisan research center operated by professed “geeks” has found itself at the center of a rancorous $5 trillion debate between President Obama and Mitt Romney.

    No white paper or policy manifesto put out during the presidential campaign has proved more controversial than an August study by the Washington-based Tax Policy Center, a respected nonprofit that issues studiously detailed tax analyses.

    That study found, in short, that Mr. Romney could not keep all of the promises he had made on individual tax reform: including cutting marginal tax rates by 20 percent, keeping protections for investment income, not widening the deficit and not increasing the tax burden on the poor or middle class. It concluded that Mr. Romney’s plan, on its face, would cut taxes for rich families and raise them for everyone else.

    The detailed paper proved kindling for a political firestorm. Mr. Romney criticized the center as performing a “garbage-in, garbage-out” analysis and his campaign accused it of partisan bias. The Obama campaign used the center’s numbers to argue that Mr. Romney had proposed a $5 trillion tax cut. Economists jumped on the bandwagon too, flinging analyses back and forth and picking apart the projections and assumptions in the report.

    At the Tax Policy Center itself, responses ranged from irritation at the partisan nature of some attacks to incredulity over the political hysteria. “There was this résumé-hunting, White-House-visitor-log” searching feel to the response, said the center’s director, Donald Marron, a former Bush administration economist. “That was unanticipated,” he added dryly.

    In many ways the report did just what the center was created to do: inject some solid numbers into a shifty, accusatory, raucous political debate. The decade-old center — a joint project of the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, two nonpartisan grandes dames of the Washington world — was founded precisely to “fill that niche,” Mr. Marron said.

    “A lot of tax policy discussions are — how to describe them? — people yelling at each other,” he said. “We believe that good information leads to better policy discussions and ultimately better policy outcomes.”

    The center’s claim to provide reliable, nonpartisan information comes in part from its staff makeup. It has about four dozen affiliated staff members and scholars — most are economists, several are considered top experts in their fields, and a number have experience in either Republican or Democratic administrations.

    It also is derived by virtue of its ownership of a highly sophisticated tax modeling system, one that took about two years to build and has a small coterie of specialists to tend it. The model resembles those used by government offices to forecast the effect of changes to the tax code, and it relies on about 150,000 anonymous tax returns and a wealth of data on pensions, education, consumer expenditures and economic growth.

    “They’re one of the few groups that have this very big, very accurate model,” said Martin A. Sullivan, the chief economist and a contributing editor at Tax Analysts, a specialty publisher. “What they’re doing is just making the best computations available” for others to interpret, he said.

    That includes so-called distributional analyses that show how changes to the tax code would change the relative burden on high-income and low-income families — a dry tax topic yet one of the most politically potent ones of the campaign, given the broader debate about tax fairness and inequality.

    The analysis of the Romney proposal has proved highly controversial not just among politicians, but also among some economists.

    Researchers including Martin Feldstein of Harvard and Harvey S. Rosen of Princeton have argued that Mr. Romney’s tax math might work if he raised taxes on families making more than $100,000 a year — not $200,000 to $250,000 a year, as he currently promises — or if his plan gave a strong jolt to economic growth.

    “Reasonable economists disagree on” the growth effects of plans like Mr. Romney’s, said Alan J. Auerbach, a tax expert at the University of California, Berkeley, who added that he did not see the math working out as currently described. “It matters a lot what kind of reductions you’re making or how you’re paying for tax cuts.”

    Others have argued that the Tax Policy Center filled in too many of the holes in Mr. Romney’s light-on-detail proposal — making a full analysis impossible and skewing the center’s paper’s results.

    “It is not an analysis of Governor Romney’s plan,” said Scott A. Hodge, the president of the Tax Foundation. a nonprofit research group also based in Washington.

    “It has been, I think, mislabeled as such and misinterpreted as such. We don’t think there are enough details to analyze,” he said, adding that he believed that it was possible to devise a distributionally neutral, revenue neutral tax reform that cut rates in the way Mr. Romney described.

    The Tax Policy Center said that it had sought as many details as possible from the Romney campaign. (Its economists said it has a cordial back-and-forth with the economic policy teams in both campaigns, as it did in 2008.) Given the numbers available, it had tried to perform the analysis in the most generous way possible, and still did not see how Mr. Romney’s rate cuts could square with his other goals.

    “We wrote a technical, accurate paper given the available information,” said William G. Gale of the Brookings Institution, one of the paper’s main authors, in a recent interview. “The criticism that you can’t analyze the Romney tax plan because there isn’t one? That hasn’t stopped other economists from analyzing its growth effects. I like to have substantive discussions about tax policy. The uproar about the paper has not been substantive.”

    Many economists across the political spectrum have said they found the report’s conclusions convincing, like Alan D. Viard, a tax expert at the right-of-center American Enterprise Institute.

    Mr. Sullivan of Tax Analysts said: “I like tax reform. I want to broaden the base. It’s something I’ve devoted my life to. And I welcome Governor Romney and the Republicans’ strong push, but the plan doesn’t work out. It’s not mathematically possible.”
     
  2. JimRaynor55

    JimRaynor55 Member

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    Good to see these guys do the math to prove it, but anyone who paid the slightest bit of attention could tell that Romney's "plan" was nothing but empty rhetoric. It's downright shameful how a presidential candidate can directly refuse to explain himself on national television, without any real consequences.

    Predictably, they're taking crap from Republicans for daring to disagree with the party line.
     
  3. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Romney is a sham.
     
  4. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    yeah and what does that make his defenders?
     
  5. Pizza_Da_Hut

    Pizza_Da_Hut I put on pants for this?

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    Delusional... A man, no plan, Romnesia...
     
  6. ktbballplaya

    ktbballplaya Member

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    but but but he was in the private sector for 25 years
     
  7. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Yeah I know. Leveraged buyouts, debt transfer and well-timed bankruptcy. This is why I am sorely tempted to change my allegiance to the Romney/Ryan ticket. And.. and ... Ayn Rand!
     
  8. Acedude

    Acedude Contributing Member

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    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OFZ8h2ygIcg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    damage-control: ENGAGE
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. bobmarley

    bobmarley Contributing Member

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    From the article posted above

    From what I have heard Romney said he doesn't plan on installing his tax plan as it is if the jobs situation isn't stimulated first. Once you have more people working this type of overhaul to the tax code can work as the article said.

    Another problem is there are other things in Romney's plan that have to happen first before he can present this tax plan. That is why a report like this is incomplete as it says they filled in holes to make it work and makes the report unreliable as it skews the paper's results.

    What Romney has done a good job doing is presenting fresh ideas to a gloomy economy and a centrist Romney will do a good job working with both sides to offer reasonable compromises that present the answers that will fill in the rest of the plan. That is why a plan like this will be done.

    That is one of the problems with Obama, the only things he plans on putting through are his big ideas without leaving any room for collaboration and compromise. That is why a lot of the things he has promised before his presidency he has been unable to do. When you come into office gung ho and looking to fulfill an agenda without the help of others you are doing a disservice to the American people and its elected leaders who have wisdom and ideas that can help their people better overall.
     
  10. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Now you have Romnesia too? Someone call the CDC.
     
  11. bobmarley

    bobmarley Contributing Member

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    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82778.html

    The thing is that you create certain principles and you work together with lawmakers to make both sides happy about what is being done. Romney is willing to work and change areas of his tax reform but sticks to guiding principles.

    The problem that I have had with some of the President's policies over the last four years is how he treats his teammates like opponents. He doesn't desire a working relationship where areas in his plans can be changed or reworked to make things more palatable and plausible for both conservatives and liberals. He hasn't learned that teamwork wins because he thinks conservative America is not part of the American team.

    The problem is we are ALL in this together and it really is time for this partisan crap to stop and make things work, because if we continue down the path we are on we will be a weak America because we are so divided. "Unite or Die"
     
    #11 bobmarley, Oct 26, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  12. bucket

    bucket Member

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    I'm not sure you've been living in the same universe I have. On every major issue, the President has come waaay over towards the Republicans, who responded by shifting their positions further to the right and refusing to compromise. This is why we saw most of the Republican candidates for President forced to refute some prior position of theirs that had been acceptable until embraced by the President.

    As for Romney, he's just lying and proposing a set of policies which are mathematically incompatible. Handing that off to Congress and saying, "Here, fix this," is not leadership, and it's not compromise. It's just a hollow politician promising more than he can possibly deliver.
     
  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    You don't even believe the crap you are posting. You attempt to qualify all the canyon sized holes in the Romney plan... but any fool can see there is no plan, it is a shell game. People will vote for Romney based on political party affiliation and because they don't like Obama, not because of some third class "economic plan".
     
  14. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    A president is about a direction not the detail. Details belong to the legislators.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    bobmarley should have his username changed, insulting to the legend.
     
  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Romney: 2 + 5 = 60

    Obama: "No it does not."

    Romney: I never said it equals 60, under my plan it equals 60."

    BobMarley: "I am an independent, Romney's plan does equal 60, you see he said that he will magically get 53 out of thin air."
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    $50 more to a DEM PAC in your name.
     
  18. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    Boy I really deserved that one. My words were so inflammatory. How about another 50 or step up and be A MAN and make it 500. No, better yet 5,000!
     
  19. bucket

    bucket Member

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    You would be the worst boss ever.
     
  20. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    So you are one of those who consider The President your Boss rather than your Leader? Okay. What time is bedtime?
     

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