andy -- i lost my grandparents a long time ago...on mother's day and father's day, i go with my mother to put flowers at their grave. am i outrageous for marking that day? for remembering them? karmic debt? the assumption was it was human life. would you like me to define criminal homicide and murder for you? here it is from Black's Law Dictionary from the Model Penal Code: "Criminal homicide constitutes murder when (a) it is committed purposely or knowingly; or (b) it is committed recklessly under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life." If it is a life, as we assumed for the illustration...then you have zero argument for how it doesn't fit under (a) above. I mean absolutely zero argument. If we go by the fact that we don't know it's human life...that we're just not sure...that we acknowledge that there are a lot of signs pointing it towards being human life...that reasonably intelligent people are split on whether or not it's human life..then it seems to me to AT LEAST fall into (b) above, "manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life." again..if you're willing to give up the criminal justice system for your karmic experiences, have at it...BUT DON'T FORCE YOUR BELIEFS ON ME!
If you look at history, the "vocal minority" kept the institution of slavery intact for as long as they could. The majority of Americans were against slavery for decades before the Civil War. As early as the late 1700s, newspapers throughout the northern states (the ones with the highest populations) were blasting slavery as an antiquated, oppressive, inhuman practice. Only for people who are extremely illogical. Someone who wants to be free from kids makes that decision LONG before my definition of "life" kicks in. The only reason the arguments turn is because YOU try to twist them to make them look illogical. Thankfully, I know that anyone with a modicum of intelligence is going to see through your weak attempts to turn my words.
Again, you try to twist what I said. I used the term commemorate, not celebrate. Either way, we both lost someone we felt very close to and I have somehow been able to put my grief behind me and move on. You know, like most people do when someone close to them dies. Wow, do y'all think before you write this garbage? Of course they don't allow just any medical procedure, that is WHY medicine and surgery (of any kind) needs to be overseen by responsible agencies. BTW, your logic falls apart here as head transplants have never been performed, would not be possible given our technology, and are not regarded as routine medicine. Abortion is a routine procedure which, when performed in a licenced facility by qualified medical personnel, has a VERY low probability of complications for the woman.
Of course not, but the first post (the one I used the word reasonable in my response to) made it sound like they got together and had a ceremony every year to commemorate a miscarriage. That is a bit over the top to me. Thankfully, that was an ASSUMPTION that cannot be proven and so the statute does not apply. The example given was that if we assume that it is a life, what would the consequence for the woman be. IF that is the case, she will work out that karmic debt with God. I never acknowleged such a thing. There are MORE signs pointing to it not being a human life until much later in the pregnancy. Intelligent people aren't split. By any measure (choose your poll), most of us believe that it isn't a life as evidenced by the fact that the majority of Americans support Roe v. Wade and support the government overseeing all medical procedures being overseen by qualified medical personnel. I think the criminal justice system has its place, for things that we KNOW cause harm to someone. For things that cannot be proven, God will have to sort it out.
Great quote. I'll use it, too. DON'T FORCE YOUR BELIEFS ON ME! Furthermore, don't force them on women who don't share them!!!
Andy, For someone who thinks that any intelligent person would agree with you, you're pretty dense. As any intelligent person would see....
andy -- this just in..the country is split on abortion...neither side has an overwhelming majority in their camp. reasonably intelligent people disagree on this issue all the time. supreme court justices disagree...politicians disagree...doctors disagree...biologists disagree. let's not act like we're arguing from leftfield here...because we're not. that's just not so.
So now you say that the loss of a brother is worth less than the loss of a child? That is pretty heartless, but to address it, my mother and father do not have events (commemorations, memorials, or otherwise) either or I would attend them for my parents sake. Nope, no parallels at all since abortion has been a relatively safe procedure for a LONG time and were even when they were illegal. The big difference is that there are licensed medical personnel who will perform an abortion where only a quack would tell you that they could perform a head transplant.
LOL, that is why you can't come up with logic and science to back your arguments. All of your arguments are predicated on a mistaken assumption. When you build a house on a swamp or in the sand, you shouldn't be surprised when it falls down around you.
What are you talking about?!? You don't even have the majority of the Republican party, much less the majority of the country. Every poll I have seen recently puts the split at around 65-35.
I'm still waiting for you to reply to the facts and science that bobrek and MM made..... Your second sentence is a nice quote, but doesn't apply to me. Sorry, but nice try. Better luck next time!
link me to one of those polls...provide some evidence of a poll like that. i don't recall that great a split at all. but i acknowledge i may be wrong, so please show me.
andy, nearly every argument you've made you've ultimately contradicted at one point. we've pointed that out time and again. you're the last one here to be making this claim.
Here is a poll that puts pro-choice and pro-life at virtually even. The poll was conducted in 2002: http://www.publicagenda.org/issues/pcc_detail.cfm?issue_type=abortion&list=1 On the same website is a poll which shows that 65% say that the government should not interfere with a woman's right to abortion. That poll is from 1999. Perhaps that means that the views are changing towards pro-life. Do you have some web sites that cite the numbers you quote?
I am still waiting for the facts and science. Point out the quote for me as I have not seen anything of the sort from them.
Who made you King for the Day? This is the low road to be taking. You can't just disavow any fact that doesn't prove your point. You are making your case with your "facts" so your case will die by the facts when proven. THen comes the guilt. My case is made on caution and respect for life-- regardless of what any poll you may try to rock me with.
Fine, if they want to have a party every year, that is there perogative. I don't think many people in similar situations would do the same thing. Not really, since YOU are talking about an unproven, unsafe procedure where I am talking about one that is routine. No, but it is as safe or safer than many other operations. There are potential risks and side effects, but not even close to as many as there are in operations requiring general anesthesia.
