Roy workout (from another message board): No need to worry about offensive complexities under JVG. It does worry me he couldn't blow by or stand out from Afflao or Marcel Almond, two other guys he worked out with.
Previously Worked-out Steve Novak SF Daniel Gibson PG Rajon Rondo PG Darius Washington PG Randy Foye PG Future Work-outs Ronnie Brewer PG/SG (May 30) Marcus Williams PG (May 31) Jeremy Kelly PG (June 5) Aussie-watch Brad Newley SG/SF @ Utah (May 30) - http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=ford_chad Daniel Kickert PF 6-10 PF, ncaa career 3P% .457 -Has worked out for GSW & Lakers
Estherville, Iowa: Doug!! Being a Utah Jazz fan, and they having the 14th draft selection, what players do you see available that would fit well within there system? Are there any "lottery" players falling out of the lottery and any from the outside sneaking up the draft boards? Thanks! SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: Let's look at what they have. The Jazz have their PG of the future in Deron Williams, they have AK-47, Andrei Kirilenko and I'm not sure they know what else fits into what they want to do. A lot depends on whether they want to move Boozer. There are a lot of like-style, like-sized guys. It's going to be a need draft and also a guy you would want in the future. Aaron Gray of Pittsburgh could be a good guy, because he has size and could grow as a player and it's not like they expect to win right away. I don't think Shelden Williams will fall that far, but if he did, he would work well. Patrick O'Bryant from Bradley -- maybe they go and trade down and get a guy like Paul Millsap from La. Tech. If you're a Jazz fan, do you want a PF from La. Tech? Williams is the most ready to play. Gray or O'Bryant could be best in the future. O'Bryant scares me because coming out of HS, he wasn't sure he wanted to play basketball. Keith (Charlotte): What up, Dougie. A Bobcats question. Every mock I've seen has the Cats in permanent Sharpie black picking Adam Morrison because of their need for a scorer. But don't they already have Gerald Wallace, picked by many as one of the most improved, playing the SF? Why not the two-guard Brandon Roy? He seems to fit that system so much better. Thoughts? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: I agree with you that Morrison may not fit with a Wallace, although I think you could play them both together. Neither are good ballhandlers, but Roy is. Roy does everything. Morrison's 6'8", Roy is 6'5". If it's me, I might lean towards taking a Rudy Gay. I'm not a big Rudy Gay fan, but I am enamored with his size - 6'9" with an athletic frame. Bobcats have Felton, May and Okafor - solid players you can win with. Wallace's ideal role might be coming off the bench if they get more talented. If you think Gay is motivated enough to become great, you take him. If you want to get to the playoffs the fastest, you take Roy. If you're somewhere in between, you take Morrison. Sean (San Jose, Costa Rica): Dougie Doug!! Whats the word on Tiago Splitter? Is he finally going to keep his name in the draft, and if so where do you see him going? Wizards maybe? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: Yes, I think he's staying in. He's actually pretty good, playing for one of the top teams in Europe. A lot will depend on his individual workouts. For the Wizards, it depends on what they do with Jared Jeffries. You could see him going somewhere like Phoenix with their uptempo and ability to use international players. The Raptors, who have Benetton Treviso's GM, who knows the talent like no other. But Splitter will be in this draft...I think. Jeff, SF, CA: I think the number of players ready to play more than 10 minutes/game in the NBA out of this draft is quite low; lower than any of the prior 5 years. Wouldn't the game be better served if players like Carney; Affalo; Farmar stayed in school to refine/hone skills? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: Of course. Carney's a senior, so he can't hone his skills anymore. But he's a perfect example of why you stay in school. He got better, developed a jumper and could be a lottery pick. Someone's going to take these kids in the first round, so you're going to get millions. But you're right, the game would be best served if they had a college football rule where you had to stay in school for three years. steve (Boston, MA): Will Kyle Lowery stay in the draft or go back to Villanova. If he stays in, who do you think will draft him. SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: Yeah, he's in the draft. Who will draft him? There are a lot of suitors for a guy like that. A team that has a point guard that he can learn from. He's such a good athlete and the NBA is more about being able to break someone down off the dribble, because there's the no-touch rule on the perimeter. He's a dreadful shooter right now, but can change the game with his defense and athleticism. So look for a playoff team to step up and take him, if they could use a point guard. Michele (Cambridge, Ontario, Canada): I believe Bargnani will develop into the best player in this draft over the next 5 years. Yet there will be significant uproar in Toronto if selected #1. What are your thoughts? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: There's always an uproar when you go off the board. You better get it right. If you can trade down and get him, go for it. They hired the GM from his team, what do you think is going to happen. People remember Tskitishvili and Darko, but many forget when Dallas traded for Dirk Nowitzki. How's that worked out? The fact is, because this draft is so much based on how much a guy will develop, it's hard to be overly critical for taking him. If you're drafting a guy No. 1, he better get on the floor and with Toronto, it's hard to say where he would play with that roster. From that standpoint, they better move someone around. If they don't get a point guard, there should be a massive revolt in Toronto. Harvey, Nola: Hey Doug... I think that Roby from Colorado is a one of the sleepers in this draft. I think that playing for Colorado and one of the worst coaches in Division I has kept him under the radar. How do you compare him with the other SGs of this year's class... SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: I would agree with you that he is widely unknown nationally, but not by scouts. He's every bit of 6'6". He's good off the dribble, off the catch. There's no Dwight Howards, LeBron, but there are players like Roby who will play in the league for years, because there are no high school kids and they'll get the chance to shine right away and be first-round picks. DeAngelo (Atlanta,GA): Randy Foye at #5 to the Hawks, a good pick for them or too high? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: What position is he gonna play? Another team that needs a point guard. Johnson is a great 2 guard, and a solid 1...but if you put him with Marcus Williams, you have a chance to be a playoff team. That's rigth, I said Atlanta a playoff team. Josh Smith, who's known to have an attitude problem, is much better with someone throwing him alley oops. That's not a bad team, but it's a lot better if Johnson is your 2 guard. Rilwan(Pawtucket , RI): Do you really believe the Celtics are going to draft Marcus Williams after they already have multiple guards? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: Yes, because they don't have a point guard. Look around the league and the teams that are winning all have quality guards. It's become such a guard-oriented league, not just because of hand checks, but because the league is so young, it's harder to run sets and it's easier to run and get guys open shots. I think they'd be foolish to take Rajon Rondo, because he's nowhere in the league of Williams, development-wise and I'm not sure of his leadership skills. Travis lawreceville ga: I think that the darkhorse in this draft is Ronny Brewer of Arkansas he is so versatile he plays defense and he is a triple double threat every time he hit the floor I think he would make a perfect fit for Larry Brown and the New York Knicks. SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: He's not falling that far. He's not falling to 20. He's a lottery pick. His shot looks a little funny, but his game is nice. He's a 6'7" point-forward type. He won't be a superstar in this league, but he'll be around for a while. This is a guy who was a top-10 HS all-american if he continues to develop his jumper and the range on it. I think he fits in very well in two scenarios: 1.) with a team that has a scoring point, like with the Knicks who have Marbury. One of the best things Brewer does is pass; or with the Kings with Bibby (lead guard who is more of a scorer). ; 2.) A Suns-Mavs type team uptempo Western Conference basketball. I'm a big fan of Brewer anywhere in the first round. Sean (Charlottesville VA): Do you think that Redick is being completely overlooked? I realize he isn't the most athletic, but in the last 3 years he has improved his all around game tremendously. The Kerr comparisons are killing his reputation, right? Who ya got, Castillo or Corrales this weekend? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: Let's stick to hoops here. If you want to go in the Octagon, we can. I don't think he's been overlooked, but the college and pro games are very different. J.J. Redick will be a good player in the NBA, but he's not going to be a star. That doesn't diminish what he's done in college, it just means that when breaking down what he does well, this is what he is: A prolific shooter, who in an up-tempo system where he's playing off the ball, he's somewhere between the 3rd to 6th scorer, he'll be successful. But if you have to play Eastern Conf. ball where he has to come off screens, put it on the floor, that's not so good. Remember Eddie House went for 50 a couple times in college, but he's never been a solid starter in the NBA. Redick was a better college player, but sheer numbers in college do not equate at the NBA level. SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: Oh yeah, by the way, who do you propose J.J. Redick will guard at the 2 in the NBA. Let's take a look at some of the 2s: Wade, LeBron, T-Mac, Kobe, Iverson... Todd (Austin, TX): Who should the Twolves target with the #6 pick ? They are in need of a true point guard but not sure any warrant a #6 pick. Do you think teaming Rudy Gay with KG gives them a front line that could return them to the playoffs ? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: Well, going back to the Hawks and the Raptors, etc. They all need a PG, but it's not a great PG draft. First, the Wolves need to decide what they're going to do with KG. If you keep him, you need to draft a guy like Gay, who can team with Garnett and a McCants...then you add a PF and point guard and you're better. Are you trade Garnett for a couple good players or for another star? What comes back in return? Odom, J. O'Neal? Either you keep him and build around him that can play off of him. Or you have to cut your losses, trade KG and start over again. One thing to note, is how quickly we forget the secret punishment from the NBA losing 3 first-round picks from the Joe Smith thing. The first 15 picks is where almost all good players have been taking. By and large, 75% of the best players have come early in the first round. And by punishing them for those years, it's like keeping an NCAA team out of the tournament for three years. It has the same type of effect. I'd look for them to choose from Gay, Foye, who most thing can be a point, M. Williams, or Brewer. chris (nova scotia): Why does everyone feel Gay is so much better than Carney? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: Gay is 6'9", he shoots a jump shot a little behind his head, so it's virtually unblockable. He has a skill set to be a dynamic player in the NBA. Carney would be a perfect addition to a playoff team that needs another piece. He can be the next great shut-down defender, who can hit jumpers, but he'll never break you down off the dribble. That being said, the NBA values specialization. As long as you can either hide the things you don't do well, or don't do them. And he knows what he is. A good catch and shooter, unbelievable defender and great on the break. Josh (Atl): Doug - What do you think of Shelden Williams prospects as a pro? I think he has all the makings of a very solid starting power forward. Maybe not flashy, but if his mid-range jumper comes around he'll be difficult to defend in addition to his contributions on the defensive end and glass. SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: We agree. Solid breakdown. Totally agree with your analysis. Usually, after 3-5 years, guys develop the 15-17 footer. We totally agree. Andrew (Richmond, VA): Show West Virginia some love! Who is gonna take Kevin Pittsnogle and Mike Gansey? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: I think Pittsnogle goes in the second round with other pick-and-pop big guys like Steve Novak. I like Novak better. Gansey's interesting because he's going to be the workout king, working out for 19 teams. He'll get lots of apparel. He could be a Hornacek type. He can pass, move without the ball. He fits the profile of a guy that fits a system like Utah. Has NBA range on his jumper. A cross between Hornacek and Jon Barry. Zach (Montezuma, IA): Where will Tyrus Thomas end up? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: I think he'll end up with the Bulls at No. 2. I still think there's a chance that someone jumps up and take Aldridge at No. 1. Everyone tells me that Paxson loves Thomas, because at the end of the day, he's a competitor. It's hard to judge how a player will compete in an 82-game schedule with all that money in their pocket. If he can improve his perimeter game, he could be very good. Thomas (Santa Barbara, CA): What is the draft status of UCLA guards Arron Afflalo and Jordan Farmar? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: Farmar, from what I've been told, is going to play in Orlando. That last borderline first-rounder to play in Orlando was Chauncey Billups, who skyrocketed. Afflalo will likely play there, too. My gut is that Afflalo will go back, but the smart thing for both to do would be to go back and have another huge year together. But if Farmar badly wants to be a pro, he'll get a shot somewhere in the first round, so I think he'll go. Josh (Chicago): How many all-stars do you think are in this draft? My guess is two...Bargnani (not quite as Dirk but will excel) and Ronny Brewer (think Clyde Drexler). SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: I'm gonna go with 4. I think Bargnani, Gay, Morrison and Marcus Williams. I think Williams is not a perennial All-Star, but I think he'll be similar to a Mark Jackson type. He can keep you honest with his shot, but is a tremendous passer and floor leader. Dan (Cincinnati): Do you foresee the UF trio of Noah, Horford and Brewer all going in the top 15 next year? Are they a better draft trio than UNC's May, Felton and McCants? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: As of today, yeah sure. Let's see how they develop. What's special about those three is that there aren't huge knocks against them (May - shape, McCants- attitude, Felton - shooting). Personally, Horford's the guy I'd like the most. I think Brewer has the chance to be like a Carney, a good defender, hit the occasional shot. Horford is so smooth, knows how to pass, etc. I know everyone is smitten with Noah after the Final Four, but put me down as a Horford guy. Sean (Boulder, CO): Doug, who is the best U.S. player that nobody has heard of in this draft? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: That's a very subjective question, because when you say nobody, what do you mean? I'll tell you a guy who doesn't get enough love is Paul Millsap. He's only 6'7" but so what the guy can play. It's better to be undersized than underskilled. If this was the NFL Draft, Mel Kiper would be raving about his motor. You don't lead the country in rebounding 3 consecutive years if you don't bring it every night. He dominated Nick Fazekas the last two years. He's an NBA player and he's gonna take somebody's job. The Rob (DC): Marcus Slaughter, sleeper, or left to early? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: Both. Sleeper who left too early. he's a legit 6'8"-6'9" more skilled than Millsap offensively. Will probably make the league at some point whether he's drafted or not. The problem is he let those advising him in his family, let's say, talk him into leaving. He's a good kid and smart. But once he put his name in, he was gone. He's a heck of a player and a really good kid, so I hope he finds the right fit. Those advising him have said he should be a SF and play face up, and I'm not sure he'll get that chance to work on that in the NBA. He'll make money, the question is whether it's over here or overseas. Steve (Boston): Where do you see Craig Smith going? How good do you think he could be as a pro? SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: I think he'll be OK. His problem is that he's really undersized. Maybe he goes in the 2nd round or has to make it as a free agent, but a lot depends on how tall he's said to be. Is he 6'5" or 6'6". He's gotta work on his face-up game, but he'll make a nice chunk of change in Europe. SportsNation Doub Gottlieb: Keep an eye on our draft coverage on ESPN.com, ESPNU and SportsCenter and we'll try to give you a better feel for things as draft day approaches.
Living in Australia, i hope Newley does well for himself. This country is starved for basketball coverage. Boguts success and his, could inspire little ones to pick up the orange ball. Ofcourse, our stupid networks have to cover it. I kid you not, there's a vendetta against BBall in this country.
Having Carney panning out like this would make me feel a lot better about drafting him. If he's going to be an athletic Bruce Bowen/Raja Bell, then he's worth it. Draft him and don't look back.
Personally, I think the best comparison for Carney would be Andre Iguodala. Seeing him pan out like Bowen or Bell certainly wouldn't hurt either.
Iguodala is not a spot up shooter. Right now I'm thinking Bell is the better comparison, because I don't see Carney ever taking great advantage of the athletic ability he has on Bell and other defensive stoppers.
Both Iguodala and Carney have similar frames and athletic ability. Both are former track athletes. Both were praised not only for their freakish athleticism but also for their potential greatness on the defensive end more than anything else. This is where I the basis for comparison. I also think a decent comparison for Carney might be Darius Miles with a jumpshot and without the baggage, although Miles has an inch or two on Miles. Bell is a couple inches shorter and not nearly the athlete Carney. Either way, not really something worth debating just having some fun here.......
Sorry, it just irks me sometimes when people base player comparisons based on 1 or 2 similarities instead of looking at their overall game. Iguodala is a bulky guy who has some pretty mean post moves, and when he goes to the basket, he slashes hard much like Richard Jefferson. The perimeter game is NON-existant. Right now the only similarity with Carney and Iguodala is their athletic ability. Carney likes to sit on the perimeter or take 1 step and knock down a step back jumper. He doesn't have the tenacity or bulk to attack the basket in the NBA yet, or the handle. If we draft him, he will be, for the next 3 years, "A good catch and shooter, unbelievable defender and great on the break" as Gottlieb said. Then it's up to him where he wants to take his game.
He'd be a good piece, IF we had some guys who could penetrate. Right now, we have almost no one he can take advantage of the new rules. The Spurs have 2 penetrators, and then Bowen is the shooter. However, Bowen pretty much got shut down against the Mavs because they paid attention to him. So, the Spurs had 2 penetrators, a defender/shooter, and one of the best post-presences in the world, and they still lost. The suns have Nash, Barbosa, and Diaw all going to the basket to complement the shooters. If we refuse to change with the times and only acquire spot-up shooters, then we'll be left behind. If we take Carney, and that description of his game is accurate, then I don't think that lineup would be able to compete against the top teams any time soon. Rafer is neither an outside threat or a true threat going to the basket. Tmac prefers shooting from the perimeter, and he shies away from contact or gets hurt when he drives (at least during the grind of the regular season). Carney would have been perfect before the rule changes, when the big men ruled. But now, I'm not so sure he's the best fit. I feel this is one of our best chances to get a real penetrator. I'd go with Marcus Williams based on the limited footage I've seen of both guys.
Alright fine, maybe this is worth debating after all........ I've seen Carney play a lot and I can't help but point out your entire analysis of him is either very exaggerated or just way off completely. You make it sound as if Carney is some kind of one trick pony on offense. He's by no means strictly a catch-and-shoot kind of player. He has a dynamite first step and easily posts people up with his size and length. I'll admit, he does seem to prefer playing on the perimeter but that by no means suggests thats the only area he's capable of dominating. You're starting to sound like Charley Rosen here, pointing out specific moves in an effort to sound informed. There's plenty more to his game than you give him credit for. Do you remember Iguodala in college? He was extremely frail and raw in college. The only obvious difference between the two right now is Iguodala was and still is much more reliable with the ball in his hands and Carney appears to be the better shooter. You really think Iguodala's perimeter game is "non-existent"? I'm not sure about that, he has the range up to the 3-pt line its just not his strong point. The point is Iguodala was drafted purely off of upside and his potential to dominate on the defensive end. Carney was a little better in college because he stayed longer but the general consensus now seems to be scouts are also ranting and raving about his upside and the potential he has to become a lock-down defender. Combine that with their similar frames and athletic ability, how Iguodala went 9th in the 2004 Draft and we're speculating here about Carney going 8th, and the fact that they are both former track athletes for fun, you get the basis for my comparison. A player along those lines sound like a completely different breed than that of a Raja Bell. Not that there's anything wrong with a player like Bell, but all i'm saying is I don't see the comparison as much as I do with an athletic freak like Iguodala.
I agree with the comparison. I think AI, no not that one, is going to be a borderline allstar once he shoots the ball half as much as the other AI. Iguodala is way to unselfish. He had the least amount of shot attempts per game for the minutes he played. He is a very underrated shooter. Once he starts looking for his shots more people will see how truly skilled and gifted this guy is. I think Carney can develop similar to Iguodala without as good of handles.
I exagerrated a bit when I said Iguodala has a "non-existant" perimeter game, and I apologize for that. The reason I don't want to compare him with Iguodala is because Iguodala is a force attacking the basket, with quite a handle. I really do see Carney as a Rodney White type player with a better outside shot in his first 3 years. Has a kind of aloof attitude on court, although he's amazing when he turns it on (most lottery picks are). And everyone agrees the intangibles are missing right now. Definitely a better finisher/clean up guy around the basket then Raja Bell already, but the strong points of their games are hitting open shots, playing disruptive defense and their weak points are similar as well - not being able to create, poor handle. Carney is three times the athlete Raja is, but you get the feeling he won't use it to his advantage. Has a very quick first step like Wade and Arenas, but the latter two have superior body control and much better handling. And since we don't really see Carney attacking the boards or playing the passing lanes, where will this athleticism come into use initially? On a couple of highlight plays ala Stromile Swift? I like Carney --- but our "window of opportunity" is getting smaller and smaller. At the moment I would prefer Ager who's stock will SHOOT UP after the combines.
