I can't believe you guys are dissing Yao, this guy is a GREAT player, he is top 10 in the league... He may not be the best athlete, but he is a mismatch every single game and teams have to gameplan around him. What we need to do is BUILD around Yao.......maximize what he brings to the table, and get players that can take advantage of what having Yao creates. Ever wonder why Von Wafer looks great here and sucked in LA and Denver? Because he gets opportunities that suite his game here in Houston, because of the attention Yao gets, Von gets wide open 3s, he gets room to drive around when defenses are rotating and he can blow by them and get to the rim. Von's game FITS with a Yao team........Morey is doing 100% the right thing, he is finding complimentary pieces to Yao... A penetrating PG, that can shoot the 3ball well (Brooks) A penetrating PG that can draw contact and get the team into the bonus (Lowry) A PF that can shoot the 3ball and stretch the defense (Cook) A PF that can shoot from the elbow and move off the ball (Scola and Landry) A Wing player that can hit the 3 and take it to the rim (Wafer and Artest) A Wing player deadly on the corner 3 ball (Battier) This team is slowly being built around Yao, to blow it up now would be insane, just because people can not see what is going on, or don't think Yao is good enough. Yao will improve as the players AROUND him improve......he has it in him to be a 25 and 12 guy......he may not do it like Dream, but those are DREAM numbers. I think a lot of people need to take a lot of steps back because they are seeing the tree, and not the forest. This is an ongoing process, chemistry is a tough business, but I applaud the team for continuing to try to make it work...give it time. Rome was not built in a day.....and remember Patience is a virtue... DD
Good thread. I'll say this, I do have faith in Morey and Adleman. And of course they know that this TMAC Yao combo is all but over. But now with nothing but good short contracts left on the roster, not to mention expiring trade assets (TMAC), and young talent for bait (Landry, Brooks), we've put ourselves in some excellent position to get better, whether that be via a trade (if u dont want to play lotto in 2010), or go for the lotto in 2010. Either way, if Yao were to get hurt next year, or regress, I would not be surprised if we were to go a different route there as well. I love Yao. But...Do we really want to give a 30 year old big guy w/ foot problems the max ? Somhow I dont see Morey as a GM who would do that. We are in a very good position, but we have to be patient. B. Davis, Carter would have set us back. Getting contracts back for Artest, Head could've set us back. So far, so good, Morey's been good. If Morey plays his cards right, we can get to the championship level in 2 - 3 years. At the end of the day, I'm a Rockets fan. Not TMAC. Not Yao. Rockets. And if we win a championship w/o either of them in 3 years, I'll still be dancing in the streets ! (if i'm drunk enuf)
The biggest question is to me is, "who is the great player that leads this team to a championship." I'm still asking the question.
You HAVE to at least be in the mix, make the playoffs; and let's don't forget the 69 Mets and the USA hockey team that won gold... but that happens alot, right. Yao is not in this mix (yet)- Kobe, Lebron, Garnett/Pierce I am not happy about the expectations I had for Yao and TMac. I am OK with RA and I like Morey. It is time to rebuild or we need to draft a future HOF player in 2010. That simple. At least in the context of how long this city is going to have to wait for another championship. At this point all three of our sports franchises are about the same distance from a championship in my opinion. I am a fan, I will watch the Rockets no matter if Buck Johnson is clunking 3's or we are plunging towards the overall #1 pick; I will support them if Lowery busts or takes over the PG position for the next 3 yrs. Honesty is the best policy. The very best thing for the Rockets is to start rebuilding now.
All of this is based on the assumption that Yao is the kind of player you build a championship team around. I don't believe he is. That's not a diss. He's a really good player. There are only a handful of players you build teams around and win rings with.
Well, sir, I respectfully disagree with you, I think Yao is that type of player, just in a different way. He is more the Tim Duncan type. He is an elite player in terms of production, not an elite athlete but he is a mismatch every single night and that creates other mismatches that can be exploited. What I think is that a lot of people get caught up in athleticism and fail to look at production. To me, Yao is good enough to be the focus of a championship team..... DD
DaDa we are not dissing Yao, but he is not a GREAT player. Do you know how hard it is to be considered a GREAT player? Great like Jordan, Hakeem, Magic? There are very few GREAT players in the game today. I'd say Kobe for sure, Duncan, Wade, Lebron, Chris Paul and maybe Garnett and Pierce - they are borderline. Let's not get it twisted, Yao is very good and one of the better centers if not the best center (but is that really saying much?).
No, he has done nothing to prove he is in the class of greatness. Now DD, if he puts this group on his back and he imposes his will on the playoffs and we go to at least the finals... THEN we will call him GREAT and he WILL be in Hakeem's class... Right now, he if very good, a player I love and want on the team but not enough to say with soundness of mind... there is a good chance this is our year!
I get it, you guys think he can't be the center of attention of a championship team. I look down the road at Tim Duncan and I see Yao filling exactly that type of role. Not apples to apples but production wise, exactly the same, and by that I mean the attention Yao gets gives a rise to the rest of the players around him. That is good enough.....you just have to get the right pieces around him. It is a team game and Yao makes the TEAM better. So much doom and gloom from people that are supposed to be optimists......shocking. DD
Put Richard Hamilton, Chauncy Billups and Prince around him and I would agree, that is the Detroit formula.
DaDa, this proves everything right here. When people think of GREAT players, the absolute last thing they think about is PRODUCTION. You used the word. When you think about GREAT players, you think about someone taking over a game, someone with absolute fire in their eyes, willing their team to victory, taking over a game offensively AND defensively (think about Dream blocking Starks shot in game 6, think about Jordan stealing the ball from Malone before hitting the game winner, the ridiculous blocks Lebron makes by coming out of NOWHERE to do it) you think about something special, game winning shots, indimidating the other team, all eyes on me mentality. If the word PRODUCTION is your way to spin Yao as being a GREAT player, then you've already lost.
Rhester, We are not going to agree, I don't think he has to put the team on his back at all but get players around him that can take advantage of what he creates. It is NOT about great individual players....it is about how the team plays off of each other. Who hit the memorable shots for the Rockets? Remember? Elie, Horry, Cassel, Smith, Max etc...it was rarely Dream, same thing for Jordan, Paxson, Kerr, etc..etc.etc..... Their presence on the court produced opportunities for others,.....Yao does that VERY well...that is all you need to succeed at this game....you just need players that can capitalize on those opportunities. Again, it would be AWESOME to have another great player, but IMO, you can win with what you have.....as long as the pieces fit well with the spaces created by Yao. What is shocking to me, is that I clearly see the game in a much different light than other people do........strange how the same game can be looked at in a completely different light. Not saying I am right, just I see it differently than some of you do..... DD
Can Yao take over games? I don't know. If you want to be a top player, you have to show the ability to take over games. Which is exactly why Tmac of the past 4 years was better than Yao. Every rockets fan knew that Mcgrady was the best player on the rockets. IMO without a motivated and healthy Mcgrady this team will not win a championship.
Agreed that is exactly what I am saying....the team is looking to do something exactly like that........but with a little different alchemy. Patience my friend, patience. No you don't you can do it multiple ways, either a great player or a great team. The Rockets won 22 in a row last year playing as a TEAM.....that can work in the playoffs too.....it has always worked, that is how the Celtics won championships in the 60s, and 80s, that is how Detroit won recently that is how San Antonio won, as a team. BTW, I respect all of your opinions on this, and the way the discussion has gone, no name calling, no over reaction just good clean takes. Thanks ! DD
The problem this team has had in years past, ex: 05 - dallas, 07 - Utah, was our toughness, we didn't hussle, our guys were tired, in 07 JVG went with a very short rotation and our guy suffered and were fatigued, theuy didn't go after rebounds, we didn't have guys like landry, scola, who consistenly dove for loose balls....didn't have an Artest, regardless of the bad shots he's taken, he is intimidating and gives 100% effort on the court...those 2 teams lacked the heart and energy....than in 08 - Utah bouncing us off...obviously we had more energy but no Yao..... now we have all that with addition to Artest(who plays much better when Tmac has been out) the heart, the hussle and drive is there now...that's my reasoning....we are the 5th seed at the moment, minus tmac the majority of the season and when he's been in he's been unhealthy and limping...guys in and out of the lineup..bad chemistry yet we still have the 5th seed now...no reason to think that given we dont play (lakers, or spurs) that we can't win a playoff series.
Comparing Yao and Duncan is, well, silly. Sure they have similar stats, but Duncan has is one of the greatest of all time at his position (many might say the greatest)--and one thing is certain--Duncan is HUGE in the playoffs and when he decides to assert himself. I've never seen Yao do that with any sort of consistency. Duncan gets ~18ppg and 10rpg just by showing up. Yao works his ass off to get those kind of numbes. Big difference. Did you know that Duncan has always gotten to the 2nd round of the playoffs, every single time his team has gotten to the playoffs??? Compare that to Yao and TMac. Sad. Frankly, if the Rockets get to the 2nd round that'll be a huge success this year. They're not gonna win a ring with the current squad.
DD, I agree with your assessment of winning; I just don't see Yao's impact the same as Hakeem's. Sorry, insert Yao on those teams and IMHO we just gave away our championships. Yes, Yao is very good, he is 7'-6" has some strong low post game, hits free throws, commands a double team and creates space, but he can be fronted, he doesnot have good hands, struggles at times with defensive position and quicker centers, basically a good team can neutralize him far easier than Hakeem or Jordan could be shut down. Can he take the next step and rival Kobe and Lebron... hmmmm... possibly. I know it is wrong to say no way or never, we might win the championship this year. But that is a really BIG might for me. I don't consider us a strong contender. I love Yao, if Tracy was at the top of his game right now we would be contenders. Face the truth, Tracy is pretty messed up (take that any way you want- physically or mentally or heart) Yao is almost a Duncan. Duncan was an elite defensive player and had a very hot Parker with a elite defensive team chemistry. Yao is every bit as good on offense as Duncan in my opinion so get me Tony Parker and Gino as our backcourt and I'm right there with you.
What is silly is you totally missing the boat on the comparison of Yao and Tmac, and how that opens up SIMILAR opportunities for OTHER players. I am not talking about the players, I am talking about team chemistry, and opportunities created by each player. Tim and Yao both draw double teams, they create the same spaces on the court for other players. THAT is what I am saying...and how the comparison is apt. Ding ding ding.......that is what I am saying......are we good enough this year? Probably not, but to say that Yao is not good enough, to me is foolish. You just need the proper pieces around him. And, honestly.....Yao is not going anywhere so complaining or whining about him not being good enough is a waste of time, better to talk about what we need to do AROUND Yao to make it work....unless you think NOTHING you put around him will work....which to me, is ...very silly. DD
Dada, you say we should build around Yao. But when he's a free agent in 2010, he'll be 30, and has a hisory of foot / leg problems. First, do you give a guy like that the max? Second, if we can agree that Yao has a limited window of being elite (lets say 3-4 years). Take away 1 year cause of TMAC's injury. That leaves 2-3 great years at his 'peak' play before he regresses. We dont have much time to really build around him, and we'll be in the same 'win now' mode that we always seem to be in, and if are desperate enough, we will start believing that we <b>can </b> win, whereas in reality, its a fools dream. I want to rebuild this team the right way, and be contenders. Not pretenders. (Honestly, we have been pretending, the whole world said it about Yao / TMAC, we just didnt want to believe it). If Yao plays great next year, we should keep him, no doubt. But I think another player will have to come in the mix here as well.
