Sane, I agree with you that (1) Steve is not playing well offensively this season and (2) he needs to improve his assist-to-turnover ratio. I think problem one will correct itself, as he and his teammates learns the new system better. Problem two is a career-long issue, and one that he definitely needs to improve on. I don't think the cause is "bad handles", but whatever it is he should cut down on the TOs. I'll take exception with you, though, when you say the team's not built well. What part of 13-8 says "not built well" to you? Yea, it's not pretty, it's like watching Mike Fratello's Cav teams of the late 90s on offense, but the results are better than what I expected at this point in the season.
Nice statistic data. I also suggest checking the stats of opponents point guard’s season average vs his own number when he played Steve. Suppose Steve has halted all other point guard to 0 assis, 0 points, 10 TO’s (just wishful thinking)….. even they have better average number than Steve this season, I wound still think Steve is far better. Let’s get those numbers coming as well…. Point guards vs Steve.. 1v1… then we can discuss what’s the performance of Steve based on all those numbers. Lionel
SamCassell, Way betetr than I expected too, however, I think it's more the result of JVG's motivation skills than anything else. You see, every team in this league has talent, and we have a bit more talent than the average team. So if someone comes in here and gets these offensive minded players to pourtheir heart out on defense, you're going to do well, because Francis, Yao, Mobley and Mo can flat out score. With scoring talent like that, we shouldn't have trouble on offense. A line up of Yao, MoT, Jim Jackson, Cuttino Mobley and Steve Francis should be an offensive juggernaut. I believe all these guys have averaged 20+ ppg in at least one season, except for Mo, who averaged 19+ppg for 2 seasons...is that correct? We also have Eric Piatowski and Bostjan Nachbar on the bench, along with Cato and Moochie. What does this tell me? It means we have a whole lot of damn good pieces, but some of them don't fit. This doesn't imply that any player on our team is bad, it just implies that we're overstocked in some places (players that require the ball) and understocked in others (catch and shoot players).
i do not hate steve. i just think he's overrated and, more importantly, overhyped. we are not owned by mark cuban- we have a budget. i look at it like we are a small market baseball team like the A's or minnesota. we, like most teams in the NBA nowadays, need to maximize our talent and stay under the cap. steve has "it" factor, he's hyped and therefore tradeable. i think we can get two players of equal talent for him. we don't sell out our games because our fans only like winners. steve is clearly not a winner.
Is he a Playmaker? Answer 'NO' Is he good passer? Answer 'NO' Can he get the ball up the Court Quickly? Answer'NO' Is he a good Point Guard? Answer 'NO' Is he a good Basketball Player? Answer 'YES'
I think what we have here is that Rudy and Francis fans were mesmerized by his great athletic ability, blazing speed, and quick hoops into thinking that was some synonymous with "great player." What's that famous saying? "Don't judge a book by its cover...?" Well, we read the book, we know what we have...it's not "that good." It good, but not great. Rudy already tried the "lets groom Francis as our next Isiah Thomas." That didn't work. Francis was picked 2nd over-all, right behind Brand. Who's better? Well, at least you know what you got with Brand: Solid PF, rebounder, scoring inside guy, good team player (18/10/50%FG). He knows he's role. Francis THINKS that he's better than he really is!!!! Francis "thinks" that he's BETTER THAN BRAND. You could tell how pissed he was when he went 2nd pick. It's ego. It's delusional! Thinking you are better than you really are is not an asset. It hurts the team! Talk the talk, walk the walk...simple. I would just as well NOT build a team around Brand as I would around Francis. Both for different reasons. Brand just doesn't have the talent to carry a team. Francis doesn't' know his limitations (loose cannon). The athletic ability doesn't make up for his limitations. Not as a "Franchise player."
I will start this post off with a disclaimer: The following statements are not meant to compare any players and their greatness with other players of lesser greatness. Now that I got that out of the way..... Steve is a great player but is he the greatness? NO Is Steve starting to show signs that he gets it? YES Should Steve get traded because he has not completely got it yet? NO Did it take players like Hakeem & Jordan a few years to get what it takes for the TEAM, not the player to be successful? YES Should have the Rockets traded Hakeem when the problem existed between Hakeem and Management over such things as his role on the team, faking injuries, learning to control his emotions,( basically not being a team guy) etc? NO Would we have won any championships if we had traded Hakeem? NO Should the Bulls traded Jordan when he was putting up 60+ point per game and losing playoff game because he wasn't playing team ball? NO Would the Bulls have any championships without Jordan? NO Should we, as fans, give more time to Steve and the team learn and mesh with JVG's offensive and defensive Philosophies? YES The preceding message was not meant to offend anyone. It was merely a public service announcement.
dennis, you have a fatal flaw in your argument. you are comparing steve to dream and jordan. please, there is no comparison whatsoever. are you on a passage to bagkok?
If you guys had your way we'd trade Francis to the Jazz for Carlos Arroyo. I give a hand to JAG for his entertaining thread topic. I was just saying to myself the other day that the BBS needs more Francis-bashing threads.
I have to agree with thegary on this one. You write your disclaimer, but then proceed to use Jordan and Hakeem in examples using them as comparisons to Francis who is supposedly our franchise player. I understand that you're not comparing the level achieved by the greats to Francis, but in essence you're comparing 'franchise players'. The reason those guys weren't traded is because they indeed were franchise players, Francis is not.
dennis begins with his disclaimer that he doesn't want to compare and then contradicts this by comparing francis' situation with his team to dream's and jordan's. i guess i just don't see the point of the disclaimer.
Hakeem was well on his way to being traded. I think Rudy T stepped in a helped both sides make peace.
no, i think i just didn't state my point clearly. i should have written: dennis, you have a fatal flaw in your argument. you ARE comparing steve to dream and jordan. what happened to your disclaimer? anyway, since you ARE comparing steve to dream and jordan, i have to say that he is not at and will never reach their level of greatness.
I was comparing the situations moreso than the players themselves. Hakeem & Jordan were much greater players than Steve is currently and both continued to add to their game to become even greater players. However, neither was the greatest in their positions in their 4th and 5th years. Both Hakeem and Jordan learned to be the franchise players as their careers progressed. Granted Steve does not seem to be progressing as fast we would like but he is progressing now that he has a coach who can show him how to win. Rudy, bless his heart, is a vet coach who can will vet teams to win but is not much of a teacher. If Steve has not got it by the time Yao and the rest are ready to challange the top teams in the West, then trade him. His value will still be high because he IS a great BASKETBALL player.
