Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You're misinterpreting the numbers to the point where you're simply making stuff up. Spanoulis didn't get PT because he SUCKS. Another logical flaw: confusing cause and effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_cause_and_consequence
V-Span had talent. And a lousy attitude. And shouldn't he be the past? What is the point of bringing him up over and over and over again?
If not getting PT was based on "sucking " why did Alston and Lucas get PT? Oh wait I can read your mind, I predict you will counter with the, "so and so sucks worse than so and so" most brilliant of all debate counters.
Give it up, V-Span is gone, the board is split on this issue, and neither side can convince the other. I wish V-Span luck in Greece. DD
Thank you. It's not me, it's other posters who have some crazy hatred of Spanoulis. All I am saying is he had ability and it wasn't realized. But certain posters attacked me and seriously called me out and quite frankly SamFisher was incredibly insulting towards me for no reason. It seems that some posters decided it was illegal to claim Spanoulis had talent. It's almost like they control the board in their own minds. All I am doing is saying I have a right to say he has talent, just as much right as they do to say he has "none." But they are going out of bounds by saying only they can state their opinion and anyone saying he has talent is "slurping nob" etc. And to then claim that anyone saying he has talent is disturbing the board? Guess what, I believe he has talent and I will continue to say so and will not be bullied into saying otherwise because apparently some people believe he is the Greek Antichrist. If the board wants all discussions on Spanoulis banned then a post saying he had unrealized potential is banned and SO IS all the posts insulting him and anyone else who apparently doesn't also want to insult him. Or am I just some freak since I actually believe in fairness and differing views rather than just my way or the highway and yeah keep Spanoulis conversation open only as long as it's to insult him or anyone who doesn't agree he was the worst player ever, etc?
Lucas didn't get much PT either. Alston basically got more PT than he can handle because everyone else sucked and he was the only one who could passably run the point. Spanoulis and Lucas were given chances to play, but they failed horribly. You knew that I'm going to say Alston is better than Spanoulis, and you're absolutely right, because why should I refrain from saying something that is true? SA doesn't even want Spanoulis, all they want to do is void his contract and save money. I can't believe you're trying to get away with using projections on Spanoulis when we have actual data. This is the equivalent of doing a scientific experiment, finding the results not to your liking, throwing away the results, and using your projected results as actual results. If a scientist is caught doing this, he is blackballed and will likely get nowhere for the rest of his career. The mere fact that you'd try indicates that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Dear lord. You posted every single one of your posts in another thread. It's not "pure Moneyball". It's pure low risk, high reward. It fits into the Morey philosophy of spreading bets out over multiple pieces, not same inane comparison to the cost of acquiring Chris Wilcox. Please, never again try to lecture on statistical interpretation. To paraphrase the great DaDakota, opinions change once the evidence changes. Spanoulis wasn't better than Rafer. Hell, he wasn't better than Lucas. You can bring up all the projections, but they don't matter. It's a freaking projection. Vegas makes all sorts of projections. If they say the Rockets will win 48 games next year, should we just not play the season? Hell, we were supposed to beat Utah in round 1. Should we now consider ourselves a 2nd round team? The experts said so! The Spurs didn't acquire Spanoulis to be a part of their team; they got him for cap relief, pure and simple. Kelly Dwyer is a writer for SI.com and a poster on this board. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but he's probably tired of you constantly quoting 2 sentences from him and dragging his good name through the mud with you. Further, why were Hollinger projections off for Maceo Baston? Why does Maceo Baston not get playing time? Was Indiana, or whoever had him in most recent years in most recent years just too stubborn to recognize his greatness? I like the guy. He plays hard. He survived on 10 day contracts in the early 00's before having success in Europe. But the fact is, he's an end of the bench scrub based on his experiences in the NBA. Spanoulis is no different.
You have the right to post your views and your arguments, and I have the right to refute them and explain why they are full of crap. I'd rather you stay around, actually. It's decent debate practice.
Lucifer called, he said that he needs you to send him a parka as it is getting very chilly down there. As for this topic.......I think that Luis will actually thrive fairly early on the Rockets, because he is used to being "The man" and being double teamed constantly, whereas now, he will be the 3rd or 4th, or maybe 5th option on the team and that should provide him with some freedom of movement he has not seen in a while. I remember watching Argentina in the World championships and thinking that Scola would have been perfect for the Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley Rockets, I loved the way he ran the pick and roll and his overall intensity and hustle were exactly the types of players I gravitate towards. I believe we have our starting PF, his skills fit perfectly into Rick Adelman's system of cuts and passes and high/low offense. And he plays with passion, which this team needs more of.....I could not be more thrilled that we were able to acquire him and avoid the entire Greece/Rockets/contract issue. Morey deserves a pat on the back.....and a hearty WELL DONE ! DD
This isn't my issue. My issue is that unless I post the sorts of things SamFisher posts I get insulted by him. Apparently this person runs the forum. For example, I could say, "Spanoulis is talented he just didn't work out." SamFisher would immediately call me names, make fun of me, and claim I am some idiot "jock sniffer" and that Spanoulis is the worst garbage ever. I don't have letting certain people reveal their true colors, but constantly being told to shut up by the same people who so rudely and arrogantly express their opinion gets old. Their opinion that I "ride nuts" is "fact" in their mind. That's extremely childish and immature to say the least.
Yeah well the problem is my projections showed the Rockets had no chance against Utah. I will stick to my methods because they work.
I like you BBall Scientist. You make excellent points. 2 minor disagreements that I have though, not necessarily statistical. 1. There is no way that Rafer is a top 20-25 PG in the NBA. 2. I still maintain VSpan could have developed into something special in the NBA. There is no way that Hollinger statistical analysis can define what he was or would be. Any player that can dominate the World Championships the way he did has to have a good deal of talent and skills. People can say it was one game against the US, it wasn't. VSpan made a mark on his team for the entire tournament and the entire Euro season. He is a baller. It is very unfortunate that he got stuck behind an inferior player and was not given a chance to develop his game last season and it is unfortunate that that experience along with other factors pushed him back to Greece, supposedly for good. However, it would not surprise me at all if he resurfaced at some point in the NBA in the next 5 years and made a significant contribution to some team and I would bet that his game continues to grow and blossom in Europe until he is recognized as one of the very best if not the best basketball players on the planet not playing in the NBA, similar to what Scola became. As far as the trade goes, I think your analysis is spot on, we got a PF that is just as good as Wilcox (I suspect he will be better overall) at half the money. What a steal........based on the fact that Spanoulis doesn't come back. However, if VSpan were to come back, I still sincerely believe that he has the potential to be a top 8 PG in the NBA and a top 30 player in the NBA. It still makes me sick to know that we sat here an entire season watching Rafer and Luther, knowing that they weren't gonna cut it come playoff time and nothing was done about it, no opportunity was given to develop something better. We just watched as the coaching staff ran McGrady into the ground and let Rafer jack up all those futile shots over and over again and make excuses and come up with false reasoning to justify running him out there for 40 minutes per game. It just makes me sick. (And I was in Rafer's corner to start the season.) It was obvious by the 40 game mark that Rafer wasn't gonna cut it and we should be playing Spanoulis and running him at the top with the pick n roll, which by the way, is what we are gonna do ad nauseum with Brooks and James this year. Pardon the rant. Keep post'n BBall Scientist.
The guru returns!! Considering the Rockets a lead in the 4th quarter of game 7, if your "projections" showed they had "no chance", you may want to reconsider.
You have about as much credibility as Bill O'Reilly right now. If you think your methods work, then fine.... keep on deluding yourself....
I like when somebody gets NIKEstrad into a debate. I think all of my favorite debates in this history of this board have involved either NIKEstrad, Clutch, Jeff or combination thereof. Though I don't think I've ever seen them debate each other.
Look, you are not going to get me to defend posters whom I think go overboard and say insulting things when others disagree with their opinions. But, take it from a guy who was in your situation just a couple of months ago, all you will end up doing is posting the same stuff over and over as the other side winds you up, and you will end up getting yourself a time out or worse banned. It ain't worth it, a lot of people feel the same way you do about V-Span, and others think he stinks..... My point is, he is gone, and we should all be thrilled that each side gets their way...V-Span gets to go back to Greece and the Rockets get a PF that could help make us world champions. Time to move on..........about V-Span.......or as would be proper...Wrong forum or Wrong thread. GO ROCKETS ! DD
It appears to me he was spot on. Utah played like garbage the first 5 games of the series. They couldn't throw it in the ocean. It was so bad a multimillionaire, max contract, all world athlete was crying in his socks over it. ..............................and they still beat us. Get real dude. They chopped us down, even though they were sucking it up.
