He can be an authoritarian, but I mean egalitarian- he treats all his players the same… and expects all of his players to give equal effort. He isn’t going to allow star players to loaf it in practice or not defend… he will bench them.
I got nothing against him. He could be great for college. Could be great for developing a culture for a young team much like what Doug Collins did for Philly. But there’s more to coaching at this level and the successful coaches connect with all their players especially star players and vets and that’s the challenge. Especially with the Rockets probably making the move on vets and Harden would this be a wise choice to hire him? I would say no.
It is interesting to me why he didn’t take the Hornets job. Maybe he felt he wasn’t ready and wanted to learn from a championship coach in Kerr who can relate to players. Maybe he has changed after that 19-20 season.
Kyrie and KD hired the wrong coach, they are obviously incompetent about it. They forced the firings of Atkinson and Nash by totally giving up on defense and allowing the point differentials to slip beyond control. Kyrie was talking about coaching the team with Nash lol, so if you're valuing their opinion that's what you're valuing. You can not come up with a worse choice of HC by a player than the hiring of Steve Nash by Kyrie and KD. Regarding his not liking stars who are treated too much like divas: Kerr is the same way. Pop is the same way. Budenholzer is the same way. Spo is the same way. They allow the least diva behavior. That's why those guys were able to groom championship winning stars and teams. A star or two will emerge from that core, role players will emerge from that core and those players will be partnered by maybe another star or two acquired in FA or trade. Atkinson will get the best out of our own potential stars, and our stars will attract the FA's. There's no tier 1 star signing outright to our 29th ranked team, do you guys understand this? The next best thing is James Harden and if James Harden is turned off by Atkinson wanting him to work as hard as everyone else, good riddance. If Fred Van Vleet doesn't like that he won't get to dramatically increase his shot attempts after shooting 40% from the field, good riddance. Now if Jaylen Brown wants to come by trade and become a franchise player, do you really think Brown is Harden-like diva off court? Atkinson will get along just fine with a star player who doesn't rest on defense and wants to get to the next level in his development. It's not the coach who lets him act like a diva that is going to get him to the next level. Wtf happened to we need a culture change? Is that the culture change y'all were talking about? Because letting a $40m player act like a diva is somehow more beneficial than letting a 22 year old prospect do it? Is it less risky? lol I don't know what the hell you guys are on. You guys whined SO MUCH about the IMPOSSIBLE TO FIX culture and now the coaching choice is about who will let FA's be divas so that we can sign a second tier FA? Jesus.
Not sure where you’re getting the information about Kyrie and KD. Durant never played for Atkinson and Kyrie only played 20 games. There were murmurs that Kyrie was not happy with Atkinson but later reports said that other players wanted Atkinson out and that he was losing the locker room. He even talked about how it was difficult for him to coach vets and stars which changes the dynamic of the team. And it seems like he can only coach one way in a league built on star power. I don’t know what you’re referring to about all these coaches but Spoelstra has always been a player’s coach. He related to them communicates effectively and players call him friend. This has been documented. This is how he got lebron and Wade to buy in. With his history of struggling to adapt in that 2019-20 season, fit is a definite concern with this Rocket team looking to acquire a star or multiple stars and vets.
Not sure where you all are getting “hard ass” approach from but I have read up on Spoelstra and he has always been a likable and relatable coach that’s why players respect him. He treats them as partners and grown men and as friends. Udonis Haslem and others have even gone on record to say this. That bullshi+ talking down to people or berating players don’t work anymore. Players expect coaches to be equals nowadays.
My stance is while a good coach does have a positive impact on the youngster career, a good playmaker/one of the best has a bigger positive impact. U sign the best coach that can best utilize harden skillset essentially catering to him without rubbing him the wrong way. Is it bad for the culture? Who the fk cares, if we cared about culture we wouldn't b letting kpj do whatever he wants without repercussion. Folks always worried about the culture and what not, look where that got the Texans and their quest to b Americans holy team. If we can't grab harden by all means grab the best coach avaliable that can coach the team without an actual pg.
It’s about communicating with players while challenging them to get the best from them but its a balancing act. The better coaches like Kerr or Spoelstra are excellent communicators and treat players the way they want to be treated as friends and partners. That’s why Ty Lue was in such demand from players and players in this empowerment era want leadership and to be challenged but also to be heard and respected as an equal.
I don't know where you're getting any of this from, but it's well known that KD and Kyrie wanted and approved Nash. I have never seen a report that says other players wanted Nash. If the role players don't like it, they are replaceable. Much more easily replaceable than a championship calibre HC. It's even stated in a video that Atkinson coached like MDA, then like Kerr on offense. Different than both as a defensive coach. Your comparison point is Udoka who has literally coached one season so what two styles are you envisioning Udoka running? How about Nurse who is coaching exactly like Atkinson did in his rookie season: only iso heavy offense? Atkinson actually went on to add parts of the Warriors offense to his offense which lifted their team up. Then he joined the Warriors and won a title. The league is not built on star power in the specific way you're describing it. I listed out 4 coaches who have won the majority of NBA titles in our era and they don't bow to star players, very much like Atkinson. It's not an obstacle to winning championships, never has been, never will be. Coaches who are most star-friendly are not the most successful coaches, if that's what you're claiming. Spo is not a player's coach in the way you're describing. You're confusing a coach who has good relationship skills with a coach who does nothing but relationship skills. Spo is a hard nosed coach, he benches excellent players, he keeps out of shape high salary players out of the rotation, he is not a coach who will allow more diva behavior in exchange for signing a player. That's not what's going on in that organization ever, and it's also why all their star players are two way players who practice hard. I think it will be very hard for us to find common ground on this and we've tried. Great example is I saw you describing Kyrie as though he does everything he owes to his teammates, which is frankly absurd to me. Working hard on half the court (offense) in the games you're there is not everything you owe for being the face of a franchise and the leader of the team. We've very very far apart on this and I think we've both made our point on where we stand on it. You're clearly very set on your opinions too so I don't see the point of a long exchange. Let's talk about something else next time, we have reached the end of this one and are going in circles.
Great post. Ridiculous to think coaches don't set players straight when the reigning champions feature Andrew Wiggins. Who was set straight at the org where Atkinson is an assistant coach btw. What about Phil freaking Jackson who has 10+ titles with MJ/KOBE/SHAQ and those players have a total of 1 title without him (Shaq with Spo and Dwade the only exception). What about Rasheed Wallace and Larry Brown. Just such an absurd statement.
Not sure why you’re talking about Nash. I clearly was talking about Atkinson. It was not just KD and Kyrie as the reason he was fired. Everything I say on this is from the available reporting. I invite you to look it up. Spoelstra is a players coach and you probably have a different definition of what that means and I clearly explained what that means. And this has been documented. He has never benched Butler or bron or wade by the way. Not built on star power? Name one championship team that has won without a star or multiple stars? Phil Jackson’s Rocky relationship with Kobe has been documented but in the end he needed Kobe to win and never benched him or “disciplined” him by the way. Here’s a starter on reporting on Atkinson. I invite you to read. https://hoopshype.com/storyline/kenny-atkinson-out/
There's no info that says the role players are the reason he was fired, and it would be irrelevant anyhow. Coaches don't get fired when star players are happy and role players are not. That's not a thing that ever happens. The article you linked simply says that early in training camp that some players in general didn't want to execute. That's not what you said at all. You said role players didn't like him. Everyone knows Durant and Kyrie wanted Nash. Everyone watched Kyrie and Durant choke Nash out of a job after demanding he gets fired. Kyrie would never work with Atkinson, and that's why we should want Atkinson. We're after the Durants of the NBA who want a Jacque Vaughn and a Monty Williams. Curry, Lebron, Giannis. These are championship franchise players, these players don't run away from tough coaching, disciplined systems. These players don't ask for coaches who will let them go iso all day. On Spo, I'm happy for people to make their assessment based on what you've written. As you said, your definition is not usual. You keep repeating that Spoelstra has the skills of a players' coach. That's not what a players coach is, there are non-players' coaches who have that skill. A tough, disciplinarian coach who can also maintain good relationships with players is not a players coach. That's an elite multi-talented, diverse coach that is rare to find. No one is going to agree with you that Spo is a players' coach. A players' coach is a coach who achieves most of their success through motivational relationships with players rather than tactics and strategy. That's not Spo at all. Spo benched Lowry for being out of shape just this season. He's done that many times to many players. He never needed to do it to Lebron or Wade because you don't bench players who play hard and lead you to two titles in 3 years. Phil Jackson benched Kobe while Kobe was gunning for 100 points (the infamous 81 point game). He did it because he didn't like the way Kobe was scoring and it would have been an artificial eclipsing of Wilt's record. Obviously championships are won with stars on the roster. Almost all teams have stars. Only 1 wins a title. The ones who win a title are not the ones who got their ass kissed the most. The teams that do the ass-kissing are the desperate ones that the star players demand trades from. The history of the NBA is that the star players who win are the harder working ones. Anyways dude, we just seem to have vastly different opinions and we seem to agree to disagree.
You just repeated what I said when i said the league is powered by stars. This is getting amusing. Coaches need stars and they handle them carefully developing relationships and partnerships with stars. You do not see stars “disciplined” or benched. You contradicted yourself and said you desire a Durant but then mentioned he ousted Atkinson and Nash. I said star power and you bring up Lowry who is past his prime and in the twilight of his career. Anyway I invited you to do your own reading and gave you a starter link. If you read any of that link it said that he lost several players in the locker room and that some vets wanted out. Bottom line is he lost that locker room old or new players and the reporting supports this. This below says he didn’t fit with the new players. https://clutchpoints.com/nets-rumor...rving-roles-in-kenny-atkinson-firing-revealed https://www.latimes.com/sports/stor...ing-byproduct-of-brooklyn-nets-culture-change https://www.essentiallysports.com/n...ulted-players-before-making-the-decision/amp/ This describes his approach to players including forging relationships and friendships. The best coaches and leaders build relationships and get what they want from players from building this Trust. Players want to have a voice and be a partner and its been documented most notably Durant and Lebron. This is my point. But the idea that he’s a hard ass or disciplinarian etc is over exaggerated in my opinion. Its about building a relationship and friendship while holding people accountable. This is the era of coaching. https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2022/05...oelstra-eastern-conference-finals-daily-cover
Well, you were here the last time, I guess you can remember how serious they were. Dont you? We had some threads here about Fertita cheapining out before even hiring silas. And then more threads about how hiring Silas was the start of the rebuild because he was not the best coaching prospect. So, do you think they were being serious? I see a leadership team that has not proved they can win, running out of excuses. So I appreciate the effort to at least build a serious list. And since I believe Im the biggest Stone critic here, Im trying to give him the benefit of doubt.
