yao played the same way v. the jazz earlier this yr. so it can't be his knee. utah is just a physical team for him. plus guarding boozer tires him out. utah is one of those teams yao struggles against. um when you are 2/3 of your way into a layup or dunk, why the hell give it up. and he's doing a MUCH MUCH better job of finishing this yr and going to the ft line so u want him to keep attacking if he's on his way to the basket. that's the greatness of his athleticism. sure tmac is a streak shooter. the same way lebron is. the same way melo is. the same way AI is. most scoring guards are not pure shooters. tmac is a scorer, not a shooter. last yr, when he missed shots and had bad games, he couldn't go to the line b/c he really didn't have the stamina/conditioning to attack all game. this yr he does. he has 10+ ft attempts in 3/5 games. i expect that to happen 70% of this season and he'll avg around 9-10 ft attempts this yr. that will help when his shot is not there. the reason why tmac shot 31 times v. the mavs was that the mavs doubled yao. but yao was not aggressive looking for his shot. the role players didn't make any shots when they shot. so tmac felt like he had to shoot for his team to win. that's a sign of a leader. he still dished out 8 assists. v. the spurs, his shot was off again. but tonight yao was aggressive as ever this yr. so he deferred. if yao was aggressive and attacked more v. dallas, tmac would have toned down his attempts. but yao kept passing even when he had single coverage. tmac makes the right plays 95% of the time. so do not worry.
But you also forget to add that Amare and Bosh are defensive liabilities when they play Yao. And PLEASE look at the whole PICTURE when you talk DEFENSE. Please give Yao his due when he has been ANCHORING one of the best defenses in the L. He doesn't have to swat anything away to make an impact on defense. Just his PRESENCE makes this defense click. Geez, all you TOFs are just ESPN wanna-be streetballers that really doesn't understand the GAME. All of you just wants to see who makes the highlights and probably why you IGNORE measurements like PER because it's not highlight material. I'm sure you would rather have Rafer go back to Skip if you had your choice. NEWSFLASH TO ALL TOFs: Dunking doesn't make you more of a MAN. Try playing through an infected toe and play 24/7 YEAR-ROUND and come back to me WHAT A REAL MAN WITH HEART IS. END OF DISCUSSION.
why do u label posters as TOFs? b/c they defend tmac? well then is JVG a TOF? is adelman a TOF? even JVG and adelman would admit (and jvg did admit it) that tmac is the player this team cannot afford to lose. when the game is in the 4th quarter, who do u want to trigger a play? when tmac shoots 30%, he can STILL MAKE PLAYS on the offensive end. he still can get yao, rafer, battier, head... shots. that's just how good he is. forget the dunking/scoring...and whatever. he makes his teammates better. and our defense is a "collapse in the paint" type of defense. we pack the paint and then rotate out to the shooters. that's why our D didn't lose anything when we put deke in. our defense is quicker and just as good when we go to the scola/hayes combo. we make teams shoot from the outside. yao anchors the defense when he's in, but our defense is a team oriented defense outside of battier. everyone has a foot in the paint to contest any penetration. that's why our D remains superb when scola enters to pair w/ hayes. and
thats what great players do because when you have beaten your man... and have 2 help defenders jumping up to block your shot...passing to a open man on the weak side... my not make the highlight reel... but it gets the job done...
We'll agree to disagree on this one. TOFs are just so BLINDED with loyalty which is admirable. Kind of like a CULT but I guess that's cool until they go WACO TEXAS on you. There'll always be a Yao CAMP and a McGrady CAMP. It's useless to argue with either camp so why even try. I KNOW YAO IS THE MAN and you think McGrady is the MAN. It doesn't really matter in the end cuz those two guys know that they need each other.
tell me who does that? kobe? jordan? lebron? wade? u do know when u say 2/3 of the way that means they're already up in the air and about to finish right? every coach tells their best player to finish when u go to the rim. u only pass when u beat your man and the defense collapse on your before you can START YOUR FINISH. but if you're about to finish (ala in the air or in the motion of finishing) why pass? that's the criticism JVG had on tmac. that he would drive, get up in the air, and then pass for a 3 when he could have taken it in for a foul or a layup.
if u notice, your "supposed" TOFs would give credit to yao and praise him when he does well. i personally think after that game v. the spurs that he's a top 3 big man overall (best center bar none). we actually appreciate yao and what he brings to this team. but the YOFs that u claim, NEVER acknowledge tmac (and i can name 4-5 poster) no matter how great he does and thins he's replaceable. and i don't care if tmac's the man. if we can prove we can win in teh playoffs as the #1 guy, then i'm all for it. at this stage of tmac's career, i don't think he cares if he is. he wants to be acknowledge as a winner, a champion. yao can win 10 MVPs for all tmac cares. tmac just wants his first ring.
Excellent. Also to add to this, Tmac doesn't get tired in the 4th qtr and he doesn't prevent us from keeping up with a team like phoenix who runs and guns. Sometimes Yao is a liability. Tmac is never a liability.
Yes, Yao is a presence as a help defender, but when we are playing the faster, more athletic teams in the league, he is constantly the weakest and most vulnerable guy on the defensive side of the ball. And no, he isn't what makes the defense click...the team was doing just as fine with 40 year old Dikembe Mutombo down low. What makes the Rockets defense click is the tempo of the game playing to the Rockets' strength and guys like Battier and Hayes who make up for most defensive deficiences. It is no surprise that when the Rockets try to raise the tempo of he game they get murdered defensively. It is only when they slow the game down that they look like a top defense. Did Yao counterbalance what Boozer did to him last year? No. Whereas teams can double Yao in the post and deny eentry passes, it is much harder to do the same for inside-outside guys like Boozer or Amare. If you double them 15ft out, it opens up the entire middle of the floor for other players to take advantage of. As or the rest of your post...ummm, what? I thought we were discussing T-Mac vs Yao, not who is a TOF, YOF or a street baller (which has abolutely NOTHING to do with this debate). And so what if syao plays 24/7 with an infection...that has nothing to do with him being a better player.
Except the Jazz, I haven't seen Yao struggle at all with defense. Maybe you can put the Suns/Warriors in there. That's 3 out of 29(?) teams. I don't see what the big fuss is about. BTW, Boozer and Amare are not even remotely as good as Yao on defense. You're selectively choosing one side of the game and conveniently neglecting others. Also, most defensive teams play half court games... San Antonio comes to mind, Detroit, and even the Jazz choose to slow the pace down so they can methodically break down the defense and prevent easy points. Those are all slow pace offenses. Chicago is really an abberation since they have 5 scrappy players, but I don't think any other team really deviates from that. The so called "up tempo" teams, the Suns and the Warriors play horrendous defensively. You must be out of your mind if you think Mutumbo/J Ho. can replace Yao over long stretches. Yao gives you both an offensive/defensive presence - he's not a one dimensional player like those you mentioned. The reason why our record is better with T-mac only and not Yao is because the team is built more so than Yao the last few years. There is a reason why the Heat are 0-4 with shaq anchoring the team...
If you can get a wide open shot under the rim as opposed to forcing a tough shot between two defenders... I don't see what you won't go that route. Shaq and Kobe spring to mind. Actually Wade does pass out when he jumps in the air and realizes that he's running into a brick wall and not getting bailed out by the whistle. The current Kobe is a ball hog, so he's not even worth discussing.
Are you kidding me?!? You do know who was the best player in the Jazz-Rockets series and who was the best player in the first game against the Jazz this season was, right? Not Yao, not T-Mac, not Dron Williams...it was Carlos Boozer, Yao's defensive assignment. Boozer totally dominated the series and Yao was unable to guard him whatsoever. The only times Booizer was kept in check was when Hayes or Mutombo were in the game for Yao. Those are 3 WC playoff teams. Count the Mavs and Nuggets as 2 oher teams as teams with big men that can take Yao outside or beat him with their athleticism (you saw it a few days ago with Diop's big gamne against the Rockets). That is 6 of 7 possible playoff matchups in which Yao will be arguably the biggest defenive concern for the Rockets. I am not comparing Yao to Boozer or Amare. The point in bringing up those players is to show that Yao is often the most vulnerable defensive player on the Rockets. I do believe Yao is the 3rd best big an in the league behind TD and KG, but that is not the arguement. I am on a slow computer and won't check it, but check the Rockets pace factor last season on basketball-reference...I am sure you will find it to be lower than all of those teams you mentioned. JVG sacrificed most easy offensive chances by paying it safe on D and slowing the game down. Instead of taking a risk by going on the fastbreak, he'd force guys like T-Mac or Rafer to wait for the others to get down the court. Instead of atacking the boards or offensive rebounds, often 4 guys would be back before the rebound was grabbed. If you took a quick shot on offense that gave the oher team an easy oppertunity, you were in JVG's doghouse. The team's defensive strategy was more important than the people who ran it. All of this is why the defense has been so good, not because the Rockets have amazing defenders or because Yao is such a presence down low defensively. But, against great halfcourt teams like Utah, that strategy simply hurt the team as Utah ripped apart Houston in the final 3 games of the series, led by Yao's defensive assignment Carlos Boozer. When did I say they could replace him? I said defensively the team was just as good without Yao, disproving the notion that he is what made the defense click. I agree, the team is more built around T-Mac than Yao, but at the same time 21-11 and 2-5 are huge differences. Yao was godlike when T-Mac went down, but without great passing ability ala KG he simply couldn't be effective as the main guy for the Rockets. As for Shaq, he showed last year he can still carry the Heat as well as Wade, as seen after Wade went down with his shoulder. This year they have been so poor because Shaq simply hasn't played well.
Nitro, I guess we are going to have to just agree to disagree. Diop played out of his mind in Dallas, and even then, I wasn't the least bit concerned about him at all. Yao was also very passive in that game, and that was not really a function of Elson taking him out of the game either. I actually think Elson on the Spurs is better, but that's my opinion. I explicitly said that the Jazz was an exception for Yao's defense due to Matchups, and you conviniently left out that all Boozer had to guard was Hayes on the other end of the court, because he CAN'T guard Yao. I said he was poor defensively, and that still holds true. It also doesn't help that no on our team can guard Williams or prevent him from getting into the lane. Also, I never said Yao had Duncan type defense, but he is also not one dimensional like Deke/JH... Both those guys played out of their minds, but were wasted by the end of the season, which was why they didn't contribute much towards the end of the season or in the playoffs. I'm just trying to point out that he's not such a blackhole that you make him out to be. Perhaps I misinterpreted your original notion, but having a one dimensional player wears your team down just as much because they have to expend twice the effort on the other of the court. The Spurs execute even better than the Jazz on half court defense, but Yao always seems to play decently if not well against them, mind explaining? If your talk about systems, every one of those players play in a system that enables them to flourish and hides their weaknesses. Yao's was exposed because JVG wouldn't consider playing zone at all. No player is perfect, not even Shaq - Boozer would also have a field day on Shaq because he doesn't come out to close out the mid range jumper, and when he does, Boozer can speed past him.
In reference to your stats, that is actually a very misleading conclusion. It's like saying you're flipping a coin, and heads turns up 3/4 times and saying that there is a 75% probability of getting head in a coin toss, when the truth is, over a 50 coin toss sample the disparity is not as apparent. The fact that team was not constructed around Yao also contributes to the record, but that does not equate to Yao being worse as a player. Boozer was not who he is today until he went to Utah. He was a good player in Cleveland, but certainly nothing like today. Shaq also played in the East with a bunch of veterans. As bad as the heat were, you can't say that their supporting cast of Eddie Jones/J-will/Haslem/Kapono/Mourning/Walker was not better than ours?
That's a interesting question if you can call that a question. Your query is that because he is an Asian then he is biased when he defended Yao. Then what race are you? There are a lot of non-Asians that defended Yao. Anyway, this thread has been turned into Yao vs McGrady. Yao or McGrady? Who cares? As long as Rockets win.........
