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Rockets or Magic, which team is better positioned moving forward?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by crash5179, Aug 10, 2012.

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cheke64 Member

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Wow, looking at what Orlando got. That is garbage not even worth getting pissed or ranting. Res ipso liquotor.

#41 cheke64, Aug 11, 2012

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afflalo isn't a "very good player", and theres no question its us. I've always wondered why the kept jameer as well. I still hope everyone stops acting like morey is god around here, but I know the obsession won't stop....

#42 rocketseagles07, Aug 11, 2012
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crash5179 said: ↑

Which team do you like better moving forward, the Magic or the Rockets? Both teams are in a definite rebuild mode but the Magic had Dwight Howard as a trade chip to kick start their rebuilding effort while the Rockets did biggest trade this off-season was the Kyle Lowry trade. Both teams are in year 1 of their rebuilding effort and both teams look to be lottery bound for next summer’s draft. So if you could choose either the Magic or the Rockets to move forward with which team would it be?

Orlando Magic

Key Assets:
Aaron Afflalo – 26 year old 6’5” SG, very good player
Moe Harkless – 20 year old 6’8” SF, a rookie that would likely be a top 10 pick in next year’s lottery and is building block piece.
Andrew Nicholson – 22 year old 6’9” PF, a rookie with good upside as a scorer
Nikola Vucevic – 21 year old 7’0” C, could be a nice role player but not a high upside player
76ers 1st round pick – lottery protected
Nuggets 1st round pick – In year 2014
Lakers 1st round pick – In year 2017
Orlando’s 1st picks – They are likely to be very early lottery picks over the next couple of years

Other Assets:
Al Harrington – 32 year old 6’9” PF, very solid role player but not likely to be around when the Magic are good again.
Cap Room – Not sure how much but I heard one radio announcer say that they have the ability to sign a max free agent next summer

Probable Starting Line-Up in 2012:
PG – Jameer Nelson (Thanks to "Rockets_4_life" for the correction)
SG – Aaron Afflalo
SF – Hedo Turkoglu
PF – Glen Davis
C – Al Harrington

Key Reserves:
Andrew Nicholson, Moe Harkless, Nikola Vucevic, J.J. Redick, Quinton Richardson

Houston Rockets:

Key Assets:
Jeremy Lamb – 20 year old 6’5” SG, rookie with very high upside as a scorer
Donatas Motiejunas – 21 year old 7’0” PF / C, rookie with very high upside
Chandler Parsons – 23 year old 6’9” SF, young player with elite level defense
Jeremy Lin – 23 year old 6’3” PG, played at superstar level for a 10 game stretch last season, has all-star potential
Omer Asik – 26 year old 7’0” C, is a legitimate center with size that plays defense at an elite level
Royce White – 21 year old 6’8” SF / PF, rookie that would have likely been a top 10 pick in next year’s draft with very high upside.
Terrence Jones – 20 year old 6’9” SF / PF, rookie with high upside that could be a double / double machine during his career.
Kevin Martin – 29 year old 6’7” SG, when healthy he scores at an all-star level but he is not always healthy. It’s hard to see him in Houston’s long term plans and he has value as an expiring contract or a trade asset.
Toronto 1st round pick – Lottery pick, top 10 possibility
Dallas 1st round pick – Top 20 protected until 2017 and unprotected after that
Charlotte’s 2nd round pick – Likely to be one of the first 5 or 10 picks in the 2nd round
Houston’s own 1st round picks – There is a good chance it’s a top 10 pick or better next season.

Other Assets:
Patrick Patterson – 23 year old 6’9” PF, after showing promise as a rookie did not do much as a sophomore. Will likely be a journeyman type of player.
Marcus Morris – 22 year old 6’9” SF, pretty bad as a rookie but was a lottery pick last year
Cap Room

Probable Starting Line-Up in 2012:
PG – Jeremy Lin
SG – Kevin Martin
SF – Chandler Parsons
PF – Donatas Motiejunas or Patrick Patterson
C – Omer Asik

Key Reserves:
Jeremy Lamb, Terrence Morris, Royce White, Tony Douglas

Even though both teams are in year one of their rebuilding plans and even though Orlando had Dwight Howard to jumpstart their effort, it appears with my very biased eyes that Houston is substantially further along in the rebuilding process than Orlando.

- Houston as a team is much younger than Orlando, 29 year old Kevin Martin is the grey beard of the Rockets while Orlando has multiple players in their 30s.
- Houston has more youth and high ceiling potential at every position including the reserves than Orlando has.
- Houston has better draft picks than Orlando. Personally I would not trade either the Toronto pick or the Dallas pick by themselves for all of the picks Orlando received in the Howard trade. Both teams have a legitimate shot at landing a top 3 pick with their own picks.
- Houston has better cap flexibility.

Obviously, Houston’s high potential rookies have to develop into top level players and if Orlando wins the lottery and drafts the next Michael Jordan then all bets are off. Orlando does have some nice pieces to grow their team with (Harkless, Afflalo, Nicholson). Having said that I think Houston is in much better position than the Magic at this time.
Click to expand...

It does not matter

#43 zzpot, Aug 11, 2012
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magic got garbage and more garbage. a team without direction.lol they're like sacramento kings now.

#44 ejarts, Aug 11, 2012
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I like how u put Terrence morris haha

#45 jvu, Aug 11, 2012

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The Rock MVP said: ↑

I am the most cynical person on the board and the hardest critic of the Rockets, but even I voted for the ROckets. It is simple for three reasons.

1. D-mo, Lamb, Terrence Jones, Maybe Royce white but I am not a fan
2. Toronto's Lottery Pick
3. Orlando is still stuck with terrible contracts. You can make an argument that Asik, Lin have terrible contracts like I have in the past, but Lin is the only one I think we grossly overpaid for and he only has a three year deal.
Click to expand...

Naah Asik and Lin's contracts are fair value. Lin's salary is that of an above average starting NBA pg and Asik's contract is fair for a 7 footer defensive center. Asik's per 36 numbers are mad impressive.

#46 roxxy, Aug 11, 2012
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Lin and Asik's contracts are reasonable. I certainly don't think they were grossly overpaid. I do question letting Dragic go, but Lin is a baller who may help attract talent to Houston because of greater access to Asian markets. Plus, I believe Jeremy is going to be a hard worker who will be continuously trying to improve his skillset - high character guy.

Lin's contract has a greater element of risk in my opinion, because of the relatively small sample size. But I still think it's reasonable.

#47 Rocket_4_Life, Aug 11, 2012

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Rocket_4_Life said: ↑

Lin and Asik's contracts are reasonable. I certainly don't think they were grossly overpaid. I do question letting Dragic go, but Lin is a baller who may help attract talent to Houston because of greater access to Asian markets. Plus, I believe Jeremy is going to be a hard worker who will be continuously trying to improve his skillset - high character guy.

Lin's contract has a greater element of risk in my opinion, because of the relatively small sample size. But I still think it's reasonable.
Click to expand...

I think there is an element of risk in every contract that is far greater than sample size or lack thereof, (injury, bad fit). Look at Asik he has a two game sample size as a starter. I think because the Rockets were high on him before he broke out, I think just his play in NY confirmed that there fears were unwarranted. I am less worried about sample size and more interested in other things.

#48 roxxy, Aug 11, 2012
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Rocket_4_Life said: ↑

Lin's contract has a greater element of risk in my opinion, because of the relatively small sample size. But I still think it's reasonable.
Click to expand...

Asik has bigger sample size and still is just a 3/5 player. That looks like a even bigger risk.

#49 WNBA, Aug 11, 2012
primtim24 Contributing Member

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crash5179 said: ↑

Which team do you like better moving forward, the Magic or the Rockets?

Both teams are in a definite rebuild mode but the Magic had Dwight Howard as a trade chip to kick start their rebuilding effort while the Rockets did biggest trade this off-season was the Kyle Lowry trade. Both teams are in year 1 of their rebuilding effort and both teams look to be lottery bound for next summer’s draft. So if you could choose either the Magic or the Rockets to move forward with which team would it be?

Orlando Magic

Key Assets:
Aaron Afflalo – 26 year old 6’5” SG, very good player
Moe Harkless – 20 year old 6’8” SF, a rookie that would likely be a top 10 pick in next year’s lottery and is building block piece.
Andrew Nicholson – 22 year old 6’9” PF, a rookie with good upside as a scorer
Nikola Vucevic – 21 year old 7’0” C, could be a nice role player but not a high upside player
76ers 1st round pick – lottery protected
Nuggets 1st round pick – In year 2014
Lakers 1st round pick – In year 2017
Orlando’s 1st picks – They are likely to be very early lottery picks over the next couple of years

Other Assets:
Al Harrington – 32 year old 6’9” PF, very solid role player but not likely to be around when the Magic are good again.
Cap Room – Not sure how much but I heard one radio announcer say that they have the ability to sign a max free agent next summer

Probable Starting Line-Up in 2012:
PG – Jameer Nelson (Thanks to "Rockets_4_life" for the correction)
SG – Aaron Afflalo
SF – Hedo Turkoglu
PF – Glen Davis
C – Al Harrington

Key Reserves:
Andrew Nicholson, Moe Harkless, Nikola Vucevic, J.J. Redick, Quinton Richardson

Houston Rockets:

Key Assets:
Jeremy Lamb – 20 year old 6’5” SG, rookie with very high upside as a scorer
Donatas Motiejunas – 21 year old 7’0” PF / C, rookie with very high upside
Chandler Parsons – 23 year old 6’9” SF, young player with elite level defense
Jeremy Lin – 23 year old 6’3” PG, played at superstar level for a 10 game stretch last season, has all-star potential
Omer Asik – 26 year old 7’0” C, is a legitimate center with size that plays defense at an elite level
Royce White – 21 year old 6’8” SF / PF, rookie that would have likely been a top 10 pick in next year’s draft with very high upside.
Terrence Jones – 20 year old 6’9” SF / PF, rookie with high upside that could be a double / double machine during his career.
Kevin Martin – 29 year old 6’7” SG, when healthy he scores at an all-star level but he is not always healthy. It’s hard to see him in Houston’s long term plans and he has value as an expiring contract or a trade asset.
Toronto 1st round pick – Lottery pick, top 10 possibility
Dallas 1st round pick – Top 20 protected until 2017 and unprotected after that
Charlotte’s 2nd round pick – Likely to be one of the first 5 or 10 picks in the 2nd round
Houston’s own 1st round picks – There is a good chance it’s a top 10 pick or better next season.

Other Assets:
Patrick Patterson – 23 year old 6’9” PF, after showing promise as a rookie did not do much as a sophomore. Will likely be a journeyman type of player.
Marcus Morris – 22 year old 6’9” SF, pretty bad as a rookie but was a lottery pick last year
Cap Room

Probable Starting Line-Up in 2012:
PG – Jeremy Lin
SG – Kevin Martin
SF – Chandler Parsons
PF – Donatas Motiejunas or Patrick Patterson
C – Omer Asik

Key Reserves:
Jeremy Lamb, Terrence Morris, Royce White, Tony Douglas

Even though both teams are in year one of their rebuilding plans and even though Orlando had Dwight Howard to jumpstart their effort, it appears with my very biased eyes that Houston is substantially further along in the rebuilding process than Orlando.

- Houston as a team is much younger than Orlando, 29 year old Kevin Martin is the grey beard of the Rockets while Orlando has multiple players in their 30s.
- Houston has more youth and high ceiling potential at every position including the reserves than Orlando has.
- Houston has better draft picks than Orlando. Personally I would not trade either the Toronto pick or the Dallas pick by themselves for all of the picks Orlando received in the Howard trade. Both teams have a legitimate shot at landing a top 3 pick with their own picks.
- Houston has better cap flexibility.

Obviously, Houston’s high potential rookies have to develop into top level players and if Orlando wins the lottery and drafts the next Michael Jordan then all bets are off. Orlando does have some nice pieces to grow their team with (Harkless, Afflalo, Nicholson). Having said that I think Houston is in much better position than the Magic at this time.
Click to expand...

Just curious as to why you wouldn't trade Dallas' pick for all 4 of those other picks?

#50 primtim24, Aug 11, 2012
crash5179 Contributing Member

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primtim24 said: ↑

Just curious as to why you wouldn't trade Dallas' pick for all 4 of those other picks?
Click to expand...

Because the Dallas pick is top 20 protected until 2017 when it becomes unprotected. With the decline of Dirk and with Cuban unable to land another all-star player, I don't see Dallas as a top 10 team. They were not a top 10 team last season. Therefor, I think we have a good chance of getting their unprotected pick in 2017.

In 2017 there is a good chance that the Mavs will be bad and the pick could very well be a lottery pick. We know that all of the picks acquired by Orlando are going to be in the last few picks of the first round. I think 1 lottery pick is more valuable than 3 late 1st round picks.

#51 crash5179, Aug 11, 2012
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Why is the #15 pick in this year's draft, Moe Harkless, garbage? Yet the #16 and #18 are high potential rookies?

btw: The future Laker's pick will come after Kobe, Nash retire and when Gasol is getting up there. Much like our plan that the pick Dallas owes us will be when they suck, Magic fans are thinking now that the Lakers pick could easily be when they are around a middle rounder.

Logic is different when it is not about us.

People here are ripping the Magic in ways they wouldn't if it were our assets.

#52 heypartner, Aug 11, 2012

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Sman2k10 said: ↑

David stern shall soon reward the magic for cooperating with the lakers for the D12 trade with a 1st pick.
Click to expand...

For some odd reason I really do think Stern will help the Magic some way or another

#53 MambaJoe, Aug 11, 2012

crash5179 Contributing Member

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heypartner said: ↑

Why is the #15 pick in this year's draft, Moe Harkless, garbage? Yet the #16 and #18 are high potential rookies?

btw: The future Laker's pick will come after Kobe, Nash retire and when Gasol is getting up there. Much like our plan that the pick Dallas owes us will be when they suck, Magic fans are thinking now that the Lakers pick could easily be when they are around a middle rounder.

Logic is different when it is not about us.

People here are ripping the Magic in ways they wouldn't if it were our assets.
Click to expand...

Who said Moe Harkless is garbage? He is a high upside player but the sum of Orlando's gain for Dwight is Afflalo and Harkless unless Orlando has some very lucky drafting. And unless you think LAL will not resign Howard in the off season they will still be good after Kobe and Nash and at the very least better than Dallas unless Dallas can get another superstar.

#54 crash5179, Aug 11, 2012
heypartner Contributing Member

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crash5179 said: ↑

Who said Moe Harkless is garbage?
Click to expand...

certainly, you didn't. but everyone else seems to be calling him garbage.

didn't mean for my post to be refuting yours. I guess since it came after yours, it might have appeared that way. I should have clarified. cheers! And thx for your objective breakdown of both teams earlier...which i already repped

#55 heypartner, Aug 11, 2012
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You can't ask a question like this on a Rockets forum.

#56 ScolaIsBallin, Aug 11, 2012
crash5179 Contributing Member

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heypartner said: ↑

certainly, you didn't. but everyone else seems to be calling him garbage.

didn't mean for my post to be refuting yours. I guess since it came after yours, it might have appeared that way. I should have clarified. cheers! And thx for your objective breakdown of both teams earlier...which i already repped
Click to expand...

No worries. Thanks

#57 crash5179, Aug 11, 2012
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Who are the 6? Reveal yourself lol

#58 sammy, Aug 11, 2012

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WNBA said: ↑

Depends on who gets the best draft in next few seasons.

Right now, Magic is ahead of Rockets because they will have worse record than Rockets.
Click to expand...

Yep. Magic will win #1 and have a brighter future than us after this season.

#59 redhotrox, Aug 11, 2012
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The Bobcats are in a better position than both. They will have another top 3 pick this year to add to Kemba and Kidd-Gilchrist. They can take Noel, Muhammad or Zeller and have a young top 3 and a clear path to build around.

#60 youngshev03, Aug 11, 2012

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