Cade I give the biggest pass to so far since he missed all of training camp, preseason, and the start of the year due to injury last 4 games he’s shooting 46% from the field and 40% from 3 Jalen Green is in this pattern of 1 good game, and then a bunch of trash games, then another good game, and the cycle repeats itself Suggs has been the worst to me…the best percentage he’s shot in a game so far is just 6-14 for 43%…he’s been the least impressive
there is a reason ppl give phil jackson a nick name - the zen, because he know players, each one's pros n cons, helps them to adjust to the games either bench them at the right time or trust them to go through it. to jalen, he need a real coach.
It's too early in the year to put any stock in things like on/off court and +/-. Too many ways to skew the number when there's so little data. I'll give you an example - Luka Doncic Doncic has a +/- of -6.6 which is the 17th worst of any starter who's played at least 5 games. Here's the on/off court net rating comparison for other Mavs and Luka Sterling Brown -51.6 w/Luka +13.9 /wo Diff -65.5 Tim Hardaway JR -10.1 w/Luka +23.6 /wo Diff -33.7 Dorian Finney-Smith -8.0 w/Luka _23.8 /wo Diff -31.8 Jalen Brunson +2.5 w/Luka 20.6 /wo Diff -17.5 Reggie Bullock -10.2 w/Luka +14.1 /wo Diff -24.3 Kristaps Porzingis -15.2 w/Luka +5.6 /wo Diff -20.8 Frank Ntilikina -33.3 w/Luka +31.8 /wo Diff -65.1 Willy Cauley-Stein -2.7 w/ Luka +26.9 /wo Diff -29.6 Maxi Kleiber -4.5 w/Luka +21.6 /wo Diff -26.1 If you went by these on/off numbers you'd think that Doncic was a complete liability and one of the worst players in the league. Obviously that's not true.
Thanks. That's kind of what I figured it would look like for a lot of offensive players. When they are not on the court, it opens up opportunities for other players, so it naturally creates a disparity. You will probably only see an increase for players who play the same position and/or come in and take over that scoring role.
Clearly it is true and they should trade him for KPJ because his net ratings are better. Dallas would be stupid not to do this because the numbers are right there in the pudding. /s Joking aside, the reality is that there is a ton of nuance to these situations and +/- numbers are overblown and bad things to use as a be all end all measuring tool. Like the Nuggets game where Sengun had an amazing +/- because it just happened to coincide with the minutes Jokic sat. From what I've seen I think this might be a Phoenix Suns like situation with Devin Booker. He was an empty stats guy until he got a good fundamentalist and an amazing PG next to him. Green will be fine. He needs to develop and if anyone is ready to call him a bust then they should just stop watching basketball for the next 3-4 years because they aren't going to be kind to you. KPJ is the much bigger question mark on the team. Wood I think is more or less what he is.
I'm not too worried about it. The Rockets are investing in his development, and the best way to accelerate it is through playing time. He doesn't seem to be hanging his head or losing confidence so I don't see that as a major concern. The biggest issue is the team is losing and that is clearly affecting a competitive group. Good. I'd be more concerned if they took losing like this and didn't say anything - didn't care. Jalen Green is going to struggle for a while. He's 19 and is clearly not NBA ready. But the experience he is getting is going to help accelerate his growth.
I'm not entirely sure I understand (or agree with) your point. Why is it obvious that's not true? Doesn't this just say that the Mavs have played poorly while Luka is on the court, and better when he's off the court? Why don't you think that's true?
Well most the Green apologists blame KPJ for not being able to let Jalen grow. Jalen can come in with the second unit (aka Augustine).
This. despite the Mavs 9-4 record they have been outscored this year so far. They are not performing as one would expect and one could guess based on the point differential that their record is better than it should be. If you are looking at Greens on/off +/- numbers on the Rockets and then comparing them to Lukas numbers on the Mavs and deciding that Green is better than Luka based on just those numbers then you are doing it wrong. If you are looking at all of Houston’s on/off +/- numbers and conclude that the player with the best net rating is our best player and the player with our worst net rating is our worst player. You are doing it wrong. Like you said, it’s just an early look at how the team is performing while a player is on the floor compared to not. And there are other factors that clearly play a role in how these numbers shake out.
It because people are using +/- and on off court to measure a players worth. The short answer to your question is that those numbers are misleading. Luka is playing 35 minutes per game and the Mavs are #3 in the West. Contrary to what the on/off court numbers suggest, the Mavs are way better with Doncic on the court. Without him they are a lottery team.
Hm, okay. I don't agree that the numbers suggest that the Mavs would be better without Luka, because the context is important, like I mentioned. Possibly misleading, though, I can agree.
That is the plan. Between this season and next when all the vets are gone. He's not Lebron James bro he still has a lot to learn before he can get the keys to the team. If he was marginally better he would already have them. The opportunities are there....he's just still so young.
I'm a big proponent of letting rookies get their reps on the court to develop but he really really needs to clean up his shot selection to make sure he doesn't develop bad habits that could haunt him well into the future. Guys like DLo or Barrett or even Tatum despite the talent were given the green light to chuck for development and now they still have comically low efficiency. I'd prefer a shot diet more akin to Jalen Brown or Donovan Mitchell for Green. It's not too late though. Lavine is a good example of someone who was a chucker but then dramatically improved his shot selection and it made him an allstar.
This kind of proves that the Green fans have it backwards, KPJ isn't hurting Green, Green is hurting the entire team....and funny enough, KPJ is actually helping Green. This isn't to say that one day when he learns how to play basketball that Green can't be a decent player, but right now he's one of the worst players in the NBA.....he needs to catch a bit of bench while he's learning how to play the game.
Actually in several games Luka had a huge negative plus minus while he was playing so in those games he didn’t play well and had a negative plus minus. Not very complicated. If he keeps playing well he will continue to improve his plus minus as he’s been doing for quite a while now, the numbers don’t lie. It means Luka has overall not been great this year, and n this year it means several really really bad games and other mostly good ones. Greens plus minus is 100 lower than Lukas so it’s not even comparable lol. Also he’s consistently the worst plus minus on the team and the worst in the entire nba. He just set the record for lowest plus minus again in the last game and keeps going negative at a rate unmatched by anyone else while Lukas plus minus keeps improving. Plus minus doesn’t mean you’re a bad player but it does mean your lineup was not scoring and/ or you were giving up points on defense. At the end of the year all the sub 500 teams for the most part their starters, whether those players are good or not, will have negative net plus minuses by definition, that is why those teams are below 500. However that’s different than having the league leading negative plus/minus that keeps getting worse.
If we were trying to win games this season, Wall would be starting next to KPJ (SG) and Green would be in the G-league still for another year and coming off the bench later in the season. Sengun would be starting over Theis, KJ would either be starting or getting way more playing time. House would only play in garbage time.
We aren't talking about a couple of games. Luka has a -6.6 for the season - 17th worst among starters. Yet he's still one of the best players in the league and they are 3rd in the west.
