How about we keep Battier and add more good players? Battier isn't the problem, it's our horrible drafting and some bad trades in recent years. If all these other teams can have so many good players, we can do the same.
I understand where you're coming from but this team needs battier. Or a player like him.....He's not supposed to be our 3rd option. But he is the player that would make a hell of a difference in this team if we DID have a 3rd option... Our 3rd was supposed to be Bonzi...not Shane... and I think he did well enough in a lot of games to rise up to a responsibility that wasn't his. also, if he was treated by the coach as a legit 3rd scoring option and was encouraged and set-up[ to take more of the shots he is comfortable with he probably could have done even better.... Out of the current roster, the people that for various reasons should go in my opinion are (and not because theyre bad neccesarily but because I dont think they can offer much to the current team) are: Sura , obviously won't play again JLIII, not a bad player...just can't see him offering much to the rockets Howard overpaid and despite his small hot streak in the regular season, has been a dissapointment Wells, obvious Apart from that, Rafer, but only for a guaranteed proven upgrade on PG And on the line for me is Kirk who I'd let go as part of a package deal for someone proven...(see above)
As others have said, how much do you think we can get for Battier? I mean at best we get what Memphis did (~8th pick in this draft and a scrub). That might be enough to get us Acie Law and assuming he pans out it MIGHT be worth it. Of course we would be left with no one capable of filling Battier's position in that case. That is unless Kirk Snyder can become ALOT bigger contributor and considerably improves his outside shooting. I do agree that trading for Battier when he becomes your 3rd best player wasn't that great an idea for the Rockets. On a contender who is actually favored to win he would be the 5th or 6th best player. Ideally we need 2 other solid players in addition to Battier. Unfortunately our front office hasn't left us in a state where that is very realistic cap wise.
I like Battier. I don't like what he does for our rotations, not for what he brings at least. It's just too cluttered at the 2/3 to force a guy only good for intangibles into our line-up. We need the four, and we need to figure out the one. Battier is a trade-able, imo.
It is tough, Shane brings so much...but when we need a basket we need another perimeter player who can create off the dribble. I love what Shane brought to this team, but we need more out of his position, it would be great to have him off the bench but we won't be able to add talent without giving some up. Some type of sign and trade with Gerald Wallace would be great for this team, not only is he a relentless attacker, but he is the best shot blocker at his position and just a great defender with athleticism to boot. He will demand more than the 5mil per yr he was just on, but we really need an athletic boost on this squad, Battier as much as he brings isn't it.
Apart from all the wonderful Lenovo and 82Games stats we are now blessed with a crystal ball? Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady are good enough to go to the playoffs with Rudy Gay and Swift or with Battier. They are that freakin' good. McGrady carried the team himself for part of the season. If the Battier trade wasn't an automatic 2nd round entry, you've lost the upside of Rudy Gay and the depth of a player like Swift whose primary sin was not learning Gundy's overly complicated defensive schemes. Battier is one small notch above Matt Harpring and I sure as hell wouldn't have traded Rudy Gay for Harpring. Some of you Battier jock-riders will never admit Win Now was a joke and bust.
Neither Battier or Rafer should be the third option on this team. But they both would offer depth. Remember, the Rockets need a good scorer but they don't need an ALLSTAR 3rd scorer. Trading Battier would be counter productive. Now trading Luther is an option. Battier > Bowen - and Bowen is not one of San Antonio's 3 scoring options. But Bowen is very important to the team A shotblocking athletic PF with a decent mid-range game will make the biggest improvement to this team.
My thoughts exactly. We're getting rid of Sura's contract. If we also get rid of JHo, JLIII, and/or Bonzi, then we have plenty of cap space to sign a good 1 or 4 free agent. There's no need to trade off your top players. You have to get rid of your not so good players for something better. We need to quit trading down and taking people off the trading block just be cause we don't think they're worth anything. Many of our recent trades have turned out crappy. There has to be another coach/GM that could make the same stupid mistakes we've made. If not, we can give them JVG and that should help.
Do you remember how unbelievably good the Rockets defense was with Yao out? Battier is the heart and soul of that defense. During that stretch, he was worth at least 5 wins over any other perimeter player we've had or had a shot at with this team.
We have bad trades recent years just because JVG keeps the trading value of a players down to zero!!!!
Assuming we would have lost 5 more games, would we still have made the playoffs? Assuming we played a different team in the playoffs, would we have been any worse off?
I can't believe this. Are you trying to argue that by losing more games, maybe getting a better matchup, that the team would be more successful? I'm glad you're not trying to build a championship contender.
What I remember about the Rockets when Yao was out.... 1) An almost unbelievable scoring run by McGrady where he averaged ~35 ppg. 2) A level of competition that had a large dose of sub .500 teams. 3) Juwan Howard hardly missing a shot. 4) Deke Mutombo looking like he stepped out of a time machine. Those 52 wins were largely against the weak EC...the Rockets were 28-24 against the WC. That's the same as both the Lakers and Golden State and 1 win better than DEN. Translated...the Rockets feasted on the EC and struggled mightily in the West. If you want to give all the credit to Battier for the teams' great run against the EC...I won't argue. It's an uptempo league and we're not going to do it with players that can't get their own shots. Which is another of my recollections of "the stretch"...Battier standing at the short corner of the arc. That won't get the Rockets to the next level.
The original poster's premise is correct..when Shane Battier is your 3rd best player, you are not gonna compete for a championship. If the Rockets had a point guard who could create offense, then Battier is a perfect fit. As it stands, the rockets have two starters who should, at best, be guys coming off the bench. Their need for a power forward is really glaring since Yao isn' the rebounder he should be for a player of his size. The Rockets are essentially screwed in trying to improve this team. As others have said, Yao, T-Mac, and Battier are the teams only tradeable assets. Hard to make your team better since two of three are considered off limits. The mid level exception isn't gonna produce any starting quality players either. The Battier-Gay is still gonna come under questioning and rightfully so, as it appears the organization over-estimated itself in how close they thought they were to being a contender. Trading a lottery pick for a role player is usually reserved for teams missing a final piece or who are on the brink. The Rockets are nowhere close.
If you lose with a young player at least you can hope he gets better which makes the team better. If you lose with a veteran average role player, he doesn't make your team better in the future because his improvement is limited. Are you so dense you cannot see this? Kobe was completely spastic his first year while Vlade Divacs was his same reliable self. Vlade was obviously the better player. Rudy Gay may never be Kobe but he doesn't have to be on this team. He could be Josh Howard and we'd be much better than with Battier. Shane Battier is just another stop gap player.
Luther's trade value is close to zero so I would do this deal, even though Odom is so frustrating to watch it makes me want to scream. And I'm definitely not a Lakers fan. I want the guy to play well but he seems to have a recurring mental block where he can't do anything right some games. Bad shots, bad passes, bad judgment on defense and so often he fails to capitalize on mismatches when he has the ball. Maybe getting away from Kobe will solve these problems. Still, we have Grand Canyon sized holes at PF and PG. The other 3 positions are pretty good. So tell me how does trading one of our 3 good players help the 2 huge weaknesses without leaving another weakness. The only swing players we have on the roster to fill Battier's spot are Snyder and Novak. Helloooo! Odom is one guy I would consider giving Shane up for because he can do many more things and adds versatility. But whoever we get for Shane better help us a lot because losing Battier creates another huge gap in the roster. Also consider he is signed cheap for several more seasons which, I suppose, you can argue increases his trade value.
He’s the heart and soul of a defense that won 52 meaningless games and lost 4 important games. How “unbelievably good” the Rockets defense looks during a stretch of regular season games doesn’t mean squat if it doesn’t translate in the playoff. Ask any Mavs fan if they give a flying flip about how unbelievebly good their team looked in the regular season. Players like Shane Battier may help you win regular season games with his hustle, but he doesn’t help you win in the playoffs. Even Van Gundy has admitted to this when he said the Rockets overachieved in the regular season despite their lack of talent due to outworking other teams, but that doesn’t work during the playoffs because everybody plays hard. Ultimately, the more talented team will win over the hard working team.
