Rockets looking to sell high on "Impactful Veteran Help" to Kings for higher pick?

I don't follow college ball very much, but in a generic year, I'd say Martin would have to play pretty good defense to be worth a #2 pick. He's not even a borderline all-star.

I have faith in DM's drafting ability, and I would like to see us move up. If DM agrees with you, then I guess he won't be trading Martin to move up.

 

What do Moses Malone, Kevin Garnett, Kolby Bryant, Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis and Lebron James all have in common?

 

no college

 

and all turned into fairly servicable players

 

Yeah, the #2 pick in this year's draft is not the same thing as the #2 pick in, say, the 2003 NBA Draft, when teams could have gotten Carmelo Anthony (most teams had Melo slotted at #2, with some others--including Detroit, apparently--slotting Darko at #2). It's not 2005 (Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Marvin Williams); 2007 (Al Horford, Mike Conley, Joakim Noah); 2008 (Michael Beasley, Kevin Love); or 2010 (DeMarcus Cousins, Evan Turner). Hell, it's not even the 2004 NBA Draft (where you could have had Emeka Okafor).

(By the way, I'm listing the players above based on what scouts thought of them AT THE TIME, not based on current value.)

Yeah, if Morey thinks that there's a guy at #2 who is clearly better than Kevin Martin, so be it. I'll defer to his judgment and the judgment of his front office staff.

And I think it is incorrect to say that Kevin Martin is not even a borderline All-Star. I think that he IS a "borderline All-Star". If the Rockets had won more games in the first half of the season, Martin could have made the team. For example, even if Martin's defense sucked, if the Rockets were a top-3 seed heading into the coaches' vote, Martin would get in as one of the final guys. His scoring average was simply too high to ignore otherwise. That said, I'm not saying he's a sure-fire All-Star; just that he's on the fringe of All-Star status. Luckily, he's not getting ridiculous superstar money like Joe Johnson.

 

For my idea of "borderline all-star," the player should at least make the team one year in three. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Martin hasn't yet made it that first time.

As for ranking them according to how they were viewed at the time, I would expect no less of you; that's something I really respect about you. You don't cheapen your arguments.

 

Uhm... that would make him an all-star, not boarderline all-star.

 

Martin is a perfect piece to involve in trading for a star, not this years draft. The value of his contract and his skills would make him the main piece of our offer. So we would need to hold on to him for when that opportunity comes.

I would rather trade Scola to move up in the draft. There are always up and coming teams nearing playoff birth who will look to sacrifice their pick for a solid vet who can help them win now. A healthy Scola is just that.

 

Sure, for that one year. But what if he made it last year but not this one? Or, two years ago. This player has a shot every year, but only makes it some years, depending on how well he does, what kind of teammates he has, and what the competition is like.

OTOH, there are the Dwyane Wades, LBJs, Derrick Roses, etc., guys that will make it every year. I call those guys all-star players. I don't want to call, e.g., Joe Johnson an All-star if he only makes it sometimes.

 

I think Martin might be the poster boy for "borderline" All Stars when taking into consideration the points you mentioned. How many players who play at a consistently high level, at least at one end of the court (Martin), appear to have an All Star season, but simply get nosed out by someone from a better team, a team with a better record, a team from a big media market, a team that has a true superstar that is constantly in the media spotlight and in regular rotation on the TNT/ESPN playlist? Without those advantages, and without a huge season on a previous team that gave the player a rep of long standing, many deserving guys just don't quite make it, unless the "stars" aline perfectly. Martin is one of those guys. If we were, say ( a hypothetical! don't shoot me), Dallas, a high seed now on the verge of the Finals, Martin might very well have been picked. To me, that's borderline. On the edge of being picked, with some luck required.

And since when did the Rockets get their share of luck? The same points might be used to explain why the deserving Chuck Hayes didn't garner All Defensive honors.

 

does someone want to start a list of "no college" busts?

 

I'd trade Scola to the Kings for the 7th pick straight up. This would accomplish two things:

First, you can package the players you take at 7, 14, and 23 with Lowry, Lee, and filler to get Chris Paul.

Second, with the cap space you save and with Paul in place, you can make a run at Dwight Howard. He would probably take a pay cut to play with Paul.

Your 2012 Houston Rockets could look like this:
PG: Paul
SG: Martin
SF: Budinger/Williams
PF: Patterson/Hill
C: Howard

You could find backups for Paul, Martin, and Howard in free agency. Players like Steve Nash, Vince Carter, and Marcus Camby would probably come here for the minimum to play with those guys.

 

wow....i want whatever your smoking

 

I'm sure it won't be any bigger (% wise), than the list of college busts.

 

So you would trade all of our good up and coming young players and picks for old and busted up players. Great plan.

 

It's a question of definitions, but we're talking about three classes of players: 1) players that make it every year, 2) players that make it once every few years, and 3) players that are merely close every few years. You are agreeing that Martin is in group 3). I think you need to be in group 2) to be borderline; players like Martin are "almost-all-stars," imo.

 

Lol. Me too.

Go back to ketchup&mustard..dominate... Not likely