Rockets Have the Top Two 4-Man Defensive Groups in the NBA

I didn't sh*t on anyone.

Green has been a much better defender now. And gets the credit for that. But it is not a case like, he has been so good that Alpi is actually bad and it is not showing because Green is soo good. In the Trae case it shows up with numbers from other defenders, in our case it doesn't. It is not sh*tting on Green (or FVV) to say that he hasn't been extraordinary to the extent that it covered up for Alpi's really bad defense. It is a fact that he didn't play that level of defense. Still he played good defense, much better than we expected him to play at this time last year, and he gets all the credit in the world for that.

Fvv has not been good this year, not on offense not on defense. And generally his height is a weakness. So, I do not agree on that one.

As for the Trae comparison, Sengun's rim protection and guarding guards is a weak point and we are doing schemes, naturally, to reduce that. But that weakness is nothing compared to the level of weakness of Trae Young defense. In Trae case, the other defenders are making up for a very negative defender because he doesn't play defense at all. In Sengun's case, we are trying to reduce the effects of a particular weakness of an average/above average defender. And that is why Green and fvv's level of defense is enough to get an overall good defensive lineup.

 

The debate about this stat is pointless, but it does highlight how much better our on-ball defense has been this year at the POA. During the Silas era, you can dribble right by anybody and effectively make all our bigs "bad defenders" because they can't rotate to everyone all the time. Last year was an improvement because of FVV and Brooks leading the way, and now the young kids are stepping up and taking pride in their POA defense. That plays into Alpi's strengths (positioning, quick hands, intelligence) versus trying to cover a ton of ground to help in recovery the way someone more athletic like JJJ would.

 

Completely agree. There's 5 guys, always. Whats the point of cherry picking out 4. Seems stupid and makes no sense.

 

See my post. Those 4 man lineups come from the same 5 man lineup anyway. You need to work on the 5 man lineups to make any conclusions.

 

What is random about Dyson Daniels leading the nba in deflections and steals? There is evidence that Trae plays with an exceptional defender.

the thing that is random is green having the hardest job.

again, I wasn’t sh*tting on anyone. Saying Trae and Sengun are similar levels of defensive liability is actual sh*tting.

 

Adams needs to get healthy first.

 

Batman? F that, Sengod is Superman!

 

Yeah, Adams is still trying to play his way back into game shape for sure. Would like to see him be contributing even more to the team in those minutes or matchups where Alpi is out. I kind of thought Adams was over the hill but he has been better than I thought.

 

You said Green and FVV are not good guard defenders. That’s absurd. We’re an elite defense starting Sengun at C, there’s no way we can be there without both: excellent POA and wing defense. I’ve been watching the NBA 3 decades, that just isn’t a thing. Green, FVV, Brooks, Tari and Amen are all playing the requisite over-aggressive defense to reduce paint pressure. That means taking risks and never having the option of funneling a scorer to your rim protector. These guys are KILLING it and you seem oblivious to it.

Your agreement is not necessary for FVV’s defense. This is a 10-year career that everyone agrees he’s a good defender. 11 games where he’s slightly lower than that is not going to change it.

You’re living in lala land if you think a wing scorer sees any difference between being on an island with Trae or Sengun. You’re taking the extreme stereotypes of Trae and comparing it to a highly optimistic version of Sengun. Go read a Hawks board, there’s a contingent there with plenty of advanced stats that give the illusion Trae is not as bad at defense as we think. The fact of the matter is both need to be heavily hidden, both are well below average at playing the kind of defense their position requires.

More importantly, even if Sengun is a bit better (which I believe he is), it doesn’t change the point. These guys are players than need to be hidden with exceptional defenders around them. Sengun has just as much help as Trae. Only be virtue of being a C, Sengun is involved in more defensive plays. That’s not relevant to being a good defender.

So does Sengun. In fact our 3rd best wing defender is better than Daniels for all except these 11 games of their careers.

Green is in the lineup, he’s not doing the hardest job. The person missing from the 4-person lineup (ie 5th starter) is the one doing the heavy lifting on defense.

Also no one said they are similar levels of defenders. They are both by far the worst starting defenders on their team this season.

 

Maybe we should play with just 4?

DD

 

This is what I said:

'But with your guards being FVV and Green, you can't really claim Alpi is benefiting from great defense from guards. '

Not great is not the same as not good. The context is whether Alpi has benefited from great defense from guards. The answer is no.

FVV's past performance is not reflected in that stat. During that period, despite FVV was not playing well, our defense did not go bad, And Alpi did not benefit immensely from guard defense, which was my point.

We disagree on that. The difference is I provide more stats and arguments to back what I say.

 

...reread this part before saying things like "Starting C on a top 3 defense"

 

So basicaly
Brooks/Smith Jr and Sengun and 2 other guys on the floor at all times

Rocket River

 

It's not pointless, it's definitely a good data point to disprove some narratives. Many on here have said "you can't have a good defense with Alperen Sengun as your center." This disproves that. It doesn't mean he's necessarily good. All it means is that it is actually possible to build a very good defense with him out there at center - something that people said was not possible.

 

This is such a terrible and misleading post.

First of all, NBA games are played with 5 players not 4 so the stats would vary drastically with 4 instead of 5. Second of all, the post has zero references to what numbers he's presenting.

If you want to take the look at the video linked in the 1st page of this thread, the best 5 man vs worst 5 man lineups make way more sense not only on paper but also via the eye test.

 

I don't know if you read all of my post but I said the exact thing. However, when it applies to Alpi, some people on this form can not conceive that.

I'm not saying Alpi is horrible at defense, he tries but it's not his one of his better qualities.

 

Why is it people fail to believe the Old Fashion EYE TEST? They prefer stats over an Eye Test....unbelievable

 

swing that trade for young bronny for that 5th defender with a champion mindset