Until Rice has surgery he will be off & on the IR. The injury was most severe last year, and he played 75 of 82 games. I wouldn't call that off & on the IR.
RM... I'm not tryint to bust your britches here or anything (wasn't that a saying a long time ago?), nor am I trying to be sarcastic, I really want to know what the basis for your opinion re: Rice the on-court team player comes from...Did you see him play for the Lakers a couple of years ago, when Phil Jackson would call a timeout and Rice would just look off into space while Jackson was trying to set up plays...And last year, in the playoffs, he played enthusiastic team first defense...for the YMCA senior citizens league..(ok, that was sarcastic, but not towards you...) In terms of Pippen as a team player, while I lost a ton of respect for him when he pulled that end of game sit-out stunt when Kukoc got the play called for him way back when ( I basically hated the Bulls anyway, so no real loss there), I do have to admit that, until he came here, that was the one abberation in a career distinguished up to that point by a guy recognized as being one of the best players in the league settling for the No. 2 role without complaint, for the sake of the team and winning...I just fail to see how Rice's resume as a team player, on or off court, is nearly as good as Pippen's was at the time of each trade...
How hard can it be to settle for the No. 2 role when the No. 1 guy is arguably the greatest to ever play the game? Jag, that was a shot at Pippen, not at your response to RM. Carry on....
Any nixing of a deal would be strictly about health concerns and sinking the years/money into possible damaged goods. It would imply nothing else. One thing, however, is clear. The other parties involved hurt a LOT more than we do by a rescinded trade. We would still have the ability to sit on cap space for 1 more year. Dallas would lose the exception they're trying to lure T-Bug with, and NY would have a disgruntled, injured Rice on their hands. Fox Sports is in 30 mins. Hopefully Berman will have some sort of scoop on the current situation.
Your argument is weak. The Rockets won making significant changes to the lineup. The Lakers won the 2nd year when they removed a starter, namely GRice. The Rockets still have their core from last season and has augmented it. I don't beleive anybody is predicting the Rockets to win the championship this season. Too optimistic. BTW, many people are predicting the Rocks could get to 5-6 seed if GRice and Cato play well. Well you got to start somewhere. If you start now, then this team will be together for 3 years. And who says GRice won't be around for more than 3 years? As he ages, I could easily see him accepting a lessor role player as the sharpshooter for a couple more years after his contract expires. GRice has been the picture of health in his career except this one problem. This is not the type of injury that shortens a career. BTW, last year's team was together only last year. This year you remove Dream and add Griff. So it's not like this team is a picture of stability. The GRice trade (against our will, mind you) isn't that disruptive, realtively speaking from a personel change perspective. Griffin isn't ready to start this year. That is EXACTLY why GRice is a good fit for this team. This trade doesn't disrupt the core players. Some say it enhances it so the Rocks aren't rushed to play Griff too soon. SA wanted out...can't change that. So in return, you get Rice. SA had to be replaced by somebody, why not a 3pt threat that also has a low post game? (both are needed on this team) And GRice's injury is going to be the biggest non-event of the season. Quote me on that. -krosfyah
Someone mentioned that Kyle Hill had signed with a European team, and wouldn't be available this year. Could the maneuvering be associated with not getting everything we expected from this deal? What else does Dallas or NY have that we want? (Najera, Harvey, Satterfield, Ekezie, Chenowith, Wright, Weiss, Harrington, picks ...)
Thanks Jeff. My understanding is that Rice is afraid of the surgery. He wore the cast, but he still has the problem.
Krosfyah, the Lakers have 2 of the top 10 players on the same roster, all they need is interchangable role players. Francis would qualify as maybe top 20 and thats it. The lakers have maybe the most dominant big man to Ever play basketball! Eddie Griffin isn't being groomed to play qb, this is basketball. Francis wasn't ready to take the helm of the most difficult position to play in the nba. Do anyone think Francis would be the player he is now if Rudy would have started Drew in front of Steve because he wasn't ready? He's not a high schooler, he played a year of college ball and was somewhat successful. The only you learn in the nba is playing, not watching.
<b>RM... I'm not tryint to bust your britches here or anything (wasn't that a saying a long time ago?), nor am I trying to be sarcastic, I really want to know what the basis for your opinion re: Rice the on-court team player comes from...Did you see him play for the Lakers a couple of years ago, when Phil Jackson would call a timeout and Rice would just look off into space while Jackson was trying to set up plays...And last year, in the playoffs, he played enthusiastic team first defense...for the YMCA senior citizens league..(ok, that was sarcastic, but not towards you...) </b> Glen Rice was a double digit scorer, and he produced. Phil Jackson had a problem with him when he wanted more minutes but Rice never dogged it, quit, or hurt his team like Pippen did with the Rockets. At least Rice tried to fit into the Lakers system, even when he was unhappy. Saying you saw him stare off into space during timeouts doesn't mean he wasn't a team player. I've seen guys like Kobe, and Barkley and Dream stare up at the scoreboard and into the crowd during timeouts. It can work both ways. When a guy is staring off into the crowd, and people like him people don't bother with it. But when he isn't really liked people say he is ignoring his coach. <b>In terms of Pippen as a team player, while I lost a ton of respect for him when he pulled that end of game sit-out stunt when Kukoc got the play called for him way back when ( I basically hated the Bulls anyway, so no real loss there), I do have to admit that, until he came here, that was the one abberation in a career distinguished up to that point by a guy recognized as being one of the best players in the league settling for the No. 2 role without complaint, for the sake of the team and winning...I just fail to see how Rice's resume as a team player, on or off court, is nearly as good as Pippen's was at the time of each trade...</b> You're talking about to two different Pippens. I was a HUGE Pippen fan in Chicago. The guy, in my opinion, was an all-around more talented player then Jordan. Not a better player, but more talented. The Pippen that came to Houston and Portland was a different animal all together. He got a huge, bloated ego and inflated self-worth of himself, constantly lost focused and committed critical turnovers, refused to attack the basket, blamed teammates for losses, got into fights with teammates, and hurt a franchise by forcing a trade after they asked him and he said he didn't want one. THAT is the Pippen I'm talking about. You're talking about Pippen on the Bulls. That is what I mean with Rice being a team player ON the court. The guy doesn't hurt the offense by hogging the ball, even when he wants more shots, he doesn't sulk ON THE COURT, or even get into it with teammates on the court. Is Rice the ultimate team player? Probably not. Neither was Barkley, or Dream at times, or even Kobe. But Rice's teams always won, so he couldn't have been that much of bad influence. Other then the early days of Miami I can't remember Rice's teams really missing the playoffs. And can't remember him having trouble with his teammates on the floor either. That's why I don't consider him a cancer.
i don't know if anyone else has mentioned this (i'm too tired to read all of the stuff). but it seems to me like rudy and CD are using the whole waivering thing as leverage. the knicks are paying their players a ton of money and they realize that they're screwed if they get stuck with rice's contract (and rice is branded as a lame duck). it just may be that this is a bluff to try to get a big man or another tradeable person (as many others have aluded). it just seems to me that scaring the knicks management (who obviously aren't that smart seeing as they maxed out houston) is a safe move. if they don't get anything from the knicks they can still sign rice. if they do get a player they can maybe shore up the post or get a swing-man or another player they can package with maybe walt or someone else to make a move for a legit post player. anyway, that's a newbie's two cents.
I think maybe the Rockets will anounce that Glen Rice won't put pressure on his foot at training camp, and won't play in the Preseason? Maybe he'll slowly work his way into the rotation during the season, so that his foot as more time to heel, and he could gradually learn his role? That would be good for both sides.. As to whether this was a good trade, Rudy obviously knows what he wants, cause he's been after Rice for a couple of years now. It seems like Rudy knows exactly what system he wants to use, and knows exactly who he needs to use it. We need a 3-t shooter, consistent, and some post-up game. We got just that. Now tell me, when we play other teams, who are they gonna double? Who are they gonna put more pressure on? Usually, they'd let go of Walt or SHandon, our weakest offensive links, at the 3. This year, we have a very deep rotation at the 3. The concept of the BIG players in the West has mostly to do with the PF position. The C position isn't as hard to handle as you may think (see Marc Jackson). You can be 6'10, with good skills, and be a pretty good C in the West, but you have to be a monster PF to survive. Point being, Cato is playing in, what I think is, the weakest position in the West. I think our team's pretty damn good, and Rudy's done everything just perfectly enough to make it this way. Besides, Who are we to judge a 2-time NBA championship winner?
How about we force NY to sweeten the pot by swapping Cato for Camby? Their contracts are about $200,000 apart & Camby's contract expires one year sooner than Cato's. Then we would be set to make some noise next year.
RM... No, my point about Rice and Pippen was about what kind of "team player " resume each brings to Houston AT THE TIME OF THE TRADE... That's what I mean about whtether or not we'll regret this trade in a similar fashion...All we know about Rice right now is that he has complained virtually everywhere he's played, has had teammates complain about his lack of effort in both NY ( Sprewell) and LA (Shaq), has had problems with both coaches, and been described as "floating" in both places due to his dislike with his role...When I referred to his staring off while Jackson tried to coach, I wasn't talking about my personal observation/conclusion, but the widespread observations and conclusions of basketball journalists and analysts at the time...Jackson even made a comment that Rice had to make a decision about whether he was going to play on this team while he was a member of this team...Don't you remember the whole conflict Rice had with Jackson, Shaq, Kobe, the water boy, etc... in LA? And Rice himself has admited that Spree was talking about him when he made his famous " Some guys on this team aren't putting anywhere near enough effort on the floor." (sort of) quote...That's not what I call an on-the court team player.. With Pippen, I meant the same...What was his reputation BEFORE he came here...My point was, we haven't had Rice play for us yet to see first hand whether or not his rep is deserved, but if we are going to compare the two, it's unfair to include how our opinions of Pippen changed AFTER we saw him, and counter that with our opinions of Rice BEFORE we see him...My point is the move itself, and how it can be perceived when made..We have two examples of players with somewhat tainted reputations coming to this team later in their careers, and there being debate about whether thay will fit in...I would suggest that Rice's rep. at the time of the trade is a lot worse than Pippen's was, and while there were questions about both in terms of whether or not there would be enough shots to go around to keep everyone happy, with Rice there is the additional concern about his defense, which was never the case with Pippen... In order to evaluate the moves made, there are great similarities, each with potential strengths and weaknesses, but I would have to conclude that while it is debatable that the potential strengths each might bring are at least comparable, the potential weaknesses Rice brings, in terms of team-play, effort, defense, and shot consumotion are significantly worse that Pippen brought with him at the time of the trade...
