You do really have to give it to Fred and his agent. His ability to maximize his earnings over his career span has been a masterclass. Just a fantastic job of navigating the business of being an NBA player.
So, basically, you think Amen will be the future PG, and there isn't a short-term starting PG that can be acquired with minimal assets. Basically, it appears you fear Amen isn't good enough to take the PG spot from FVV. I don't have that fear. At some point in the next two years, I expect someone will take the job from FVV by demonstrating they can run the team as the PG (On/off numbers show that the Rockets can play well with someone else). I don't want to waste assets on a short-term remedy externally unless that person is great and will be here for a long time. On Amen's development, FVV is not slowing it all. Amen is one of the fastest developing players in the game ever, and you act like he's not developing at all. FVV is a low-to-moderate usage player. If you are concerned about Amen not getting on ball reps, Sengun and Green are the ones being given the star reps. FVV is just setting up the initial action, and then mostly being a safety valve since Amen became a starter. Sure, when the young guys failed early in the series, he stepped up and gave the Rockets a chance, but Amen played well with FVV in the playoffs. FVV is not stealing the drive to the basket reps...he's actually the PG that let's Amen get those because he's not good at taking it to the hole. Unless FVV is tackling Amen when he's practicing shooting, FVV is not stopping Amen from developing the shot to be the offensive engine. Amen needs to work on his handle, but the shot is really the only thing holding him back from being the guy on offense. FVV is a great catch-and-shoot three-point shooter. Since Amen became a starter, he has shot 39% from three (29 regular-season games, 7 postseason games...also known as a larger sample than the slump he had at the beginning of the year). I think Amen would benefit from a PG that settles the offense, allows Amen to get on ball reps, can hit catch and shoot threes, and can guard most guards and a decent number of forwards. If/when Amen takes the PG spot, FVV is better than the Rockets SG by a lot and there is always the bench. I just don't fear veterans being too good that young players can't take minutes from them. FVV and Amen should be the starting guards next season unless the Rockets acquire a star/near star guard. Rockets should try to get Cam Johnson or someone else that can be a plus plus 3 point shooter at the three.
I agree. I want to move on from Fred, but $25 mil is the limit of what is reasonable given how he played this season. We need a better 2-guard. And I’m hoping that if we actually upgrade the shooting at the 2, maybe that will help Fred.
Fred's gonna rob us again. Unless we end up getting a top 2 pick, I think it's assured Stone will pay Fred at least 35/year to keep him on this roster.
There is no need to do any work. Brooklyn is literally the only team with cap space and they are tanking next year and have put out that they are using this gap year to take bad salaries for picks + make RFA offers to young players. This has been known for a while. There's no new cap space that will be generated at this point. Fred's free agent market this summer is the MLE (14M AAV). That is FVV's external leverage that HOU is negotiating against. Almost certainly, the two sides have already agreed on a new contract. Pushing back the option decision serves the purpose of giving HOU leverage in other discussions (trade, free agent) by not showing their hand before everyone else in the league - since the new contract cannot be announced until after the last game of the Finals anyway.
Fvv is the most inefficient pg in the league. I don’t care if he’s the vocal leader of the team. Offer him $10 million a year or move on from him.
I'd love to have a I'm paying this guy $35 million dollars but I don't really want to but I'll be just fine, kinda problem.
Fred has performed better when his usage is less. This tells me that we need more consistency from the SG position.
Does this mean the rockets could trade him and the next team could just cut him and save 42 million? If so this means Durant or Booker are coming for sure.
Unwashed ass. We went like 1-9 or something crazy. This pause might be for us to get Giannis and solidify everything before signing him to an extension. Hopefully he is willing to sign for a bit less if we have a championship roster. People who blame Fred for our offensive struggles don't understand basketball. Fred is forced to take a ton of our bad shots when Jalen has no clue what he is doing and gives it to him with 3 seconds left on the clock. Fred also calms this team down in clutch moments and won us a ton of huge games (vs OKC, vs Cavs, game 4,5,6)
Totally agree. Only Brooklyn & Detroit can offer anyone more than the NT-MLE this offseason - without bird or early bird rights. Neither of them is giving any of that cap space to Fred. No team is offering FVV more than that NT-MLE this offseason. There isn't any league wide cap space this year and the Rockets need their future cap to keep their young players ... If I'm Stone, that's where I begin my negotiation. $14,104,000.
Look, this is coming from someone who DOESN'T want to sign FVV to any extension; I am protecting 2026 and 2027 luxury tax room at all costs, and any number that is not outright insulting to FVV is probably too high. I'm guessing we are actually in alignment here, and are both going to be very disappointed when the Rockets turn a past good move into an eventual albatross. I think it's a little disingenuous to comp a 31-year old FVV to a 37-year old Mike Conley, especially when you have literally the same player at 34 serving as a much better comp based on team situation and age. Conley got a 3-year, $72M deal in 2021 from the Jazz, starting at around 18% of the cap, right around what has been proposed for FVV. It is true that there was a lot more money available in FA in 2021, but the team situations for Utah and Houston are very similar; team overachieves in the regular season, gets a higher than expected seed, but gets pretty badly exposed in the playoffs, blowing home court and a 2-0 lead. There was a lot of pressure on Utah to keep their starters together, but it ended up being a mistake, considering they blew up the team and traded him less than one season later. 3 years younger on a small guard is a huge deal. 6 years younger is a laughable difference when comparing contracts.
I say extend Fred on a declining $25M+ contract. Let Amen demonstrate he's the PG before we just write Fred out.
It's definitely going to be interesting to see what Stone does here. In a weird way it's kind of a make-or-break offseason for him--at least for me. I don't know what ownership thinks, they're a bunch of a f*cking fascist idiots, but from my perspective, if Stone gives FVV some kind of large contract here it's GM malpractice and he should be fired, regardless of whether said idiots fire him. FVV should be paid around 15% of the cap in this market, if he gets more than that, you're just handing him free money (a guy who is already made for life).
Mike Conley was literally on the All Star team in 2020-21 when he signed that $72M/3yr contract. IMO quite disingenuous to compare FVV's contract this summer to a reigning All-Star. FVV was extremely far from that this year. He was a tenuous starter. You can't just say here's two players at the same age - they should get the same money at each age point. FVV shot 37% from the field this year, might I remind you. I'm not some FVV hater, but current FVV is just about the same level of player in a similar type of role as age 36 (not 37 btw) Mike Conley when he signed 2yrs/$21M. A declining caretaker starting PG, expected to be transitioned to a rotational role in the near future. That's not an insult to FVV. Anyway, the larger point is this - players get paid based on their market. There's no market for free agents right now. Teams don't overpay guys $10M AAV above their best alternative as a courtesy. It's a business. I'm sure FVV will get more than the MLE from us because we like him, but not 2x the guaranteed dollars of his next best offer.
Honestly, keeping FVV around would be a big mistake. Last season, if he played enough to be a qualifying player, he'd have had the worst FG% of any qualifying player in the entire league and he ranked 190 out of 204 when it comes to TS%. He's on the wrong side of 30 and already BY FAR the least efficient scoring full time starting PG in the league. I know Ime loves him, but the guy is flat out terrible far too often to keep around because Ime can't be trusted to not play him 40 minutes in any given game no matter how much he is hurting the team. He needs to be dumped right now while we still can.
A lineup with no FVV, I know Ime somewhere shaking his head. Sengun/Aquaman/Jabari Jabari/Sengun/Eason Amen/Eason Green/Brooks Reed/ Free agent pick up with a threeball Team defense would make up what Reed will have to endure on the defensive end in first year as a starter. But his quick hands and PnR navigation will offset some of that too. Cam to the doghouse the new rookie gets 2 minutes a game. Rockets finish 1st place. Oh, just our luck. Warriors get 8th seed with the new addition of Harden and their fall down at the line play.
They’re keeping him. Already cooking up a multi-year deal to come back and play 37 minutes. Returning the same shitty backcourt. https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/280346/Rockets-Likely-To-Decline-Fred-VanVleet-Team-Option-To-Offer-Multiyear-Deal The Houston Rockets are likely to decline Fred VanVleet's team option and sign the guard to a multiyear deal at a lower annual salary, according to Marc Stein and Jake Fischer of The Stein Line.
