Have you intelligently proven me wrong? No. I apologized for the muslim comment. I was wrong about that. Pete Rose Mobster, that last line was pretty classless. I can see you want Hakeem to play poorly and still have sour grapes over the whole incident. Your true colors have shown. How about instead of b****ing at me, reply to my post, which you are obviously ducking because you know I'm right you bitter, bitter little man! Is Toronto in the west? No. Talking about silly hypotheticals is a waste of time. Don't make excuses for the fact your team cannot make the playoffs. They WILL be great and WILL make the playoffs in a few years if Steve stays(which he will) and if Eddie Griffin turns out good(which I'm not sure). You honestly wouldn't give up Shandon Anderson to have Hakeem back for 2-3 seasons? A backup SF/SG for the city's legend? Man, that speaks volumes. Maybe your priorities are in the wrong places. Shandon Anderson is nothing special. He's a journeyman. Sign Bruce Bowen and you got a Shandon Anderson. Anyone who says Hakeem leaving Houston is a blight on his career needs to get over themselves. Oh well, he didn't placate your egos. Cry about it some more! I'll get you a towel from the press conference IN TORONTO.
FRutie- You see that X in the top right corner. Point your arrow on that X and right click. Don't let the door hit you in your arse on the way out. Let me guess what you are going to say next. Hmmm. You are no different from any other OUTSIDER. You enter with compliments and leave with disrespect.
It's not just about Shandon Anderson. The amount of money Dream wanted from us would have cost us that "fat jerk" Mo Taylor and possibly Moochie Norris as well. It would have been nice to see Dream retire as a Rocket, but those 3 guys are a lot more important to our future.
He brings up stats because he uses them to refute your statements. What's wrong with that? I'm sure there were "some nights" that worse players took better shots than better players. "Oh my God!" that must mean the better players were being under-utilized... give me a break. Hakeem has always said that the post is where the offense should be run through and he couldn't bear to work under a guard-oriented lineup. Now he's running for the hills to escape for more playing time (supposedly) and more money. You responded after the question was asked, yet failed to address probably the most important allegation you made in your statements. If you don't think your statement or allegation is that important that you back it up, then don't post it. We have a way of holding people to backing up their statements sometimes, especially when they're of the type you made. You can voice your opinion on Hakeem, but we're not allowed to blast your opinion of Hakeem? We're not allowed to question where your statements and allegations are coming from? BS. You either come firing bullets or don't come at all. You don't go to war firing blanks and then crying for help. There are several people on this board that are intelligent posters from other teams that have no problems posting on this board, so your point about banning non-Rocket fans from the site is ignorant. We have respect for Hakeem. It's just that some of us have more respect and love for the Rockets organization. I'm sure that as a very young organization by NBA standards, the Raptors enjoy the individual player far more than the team -- I don't. Perhaps 10-20 years down the road you, too, will understand why the affinity for team vs. affinity for "legend" is greater in the hearts of people like me. Until then, you'll be cheering for the dunks of VC and the blocks of Hakeem and saying you're a "Toronto Raptors fan" when in all honesty, you're not; you're just a fan of a winner.
Ignorance must be a blissful heaven for you. I see you couldn't come up with a response to all those box scores (5) you saw where Hakeem was so poorly used. They're not excuses... mere responses to a fan blinded by his Raptor fandom in claiming that the 45-37 Rockets "suck" and the 47-35 Raptors do not, something you still have not been able to recover from. Now you're just here to gloat. Hasta. Better run back to the ESPN boards where you'll fit right in.
Funny how everyone now knows how much of an idiot Flutie really is now. It's apparent he just wants to talk smack and get everyone riled up. Good job Flutetroll. Why don't you stick to reading your ESPN trash boards where maybe you'll be considered intelligent among the dullards? It's apparent you can't intelligently talk bball with someone without getting personal or resulting to baseless arguments which you wont budge on, and are quite ignorant when it comes to the NBA. Regurgitate your senseless trash elsewhere. You are a freaking joke and i knew you couldn't hang in this bbs from day one.
Flutie, Your response to someone was along the lines of "Hakeem was insulted by the Rockets' offer". How much better was the Raptors' offer? I don't remember what it was to be honest; I haven't followed the saga. If you could post the numbers, I'd be greatful. Thanks.
Flutie: How can clutch present objective #'s that completely reject your assertions, and not have good arguments? If his statistical evidence is inaccurate or misinterpreted, explain how. If not, then concede that you're wrong or go away. Your entire posting style is based on these Raptors-are-best assumptions that aren't grounded in reality. There's nothing wrong with being a fan, but try to stay objective as much as possible. It's easiest to stay objective by sticking to the record. Why don't you try that?
Today I discovered the ignore function on this BBS. It has quickly become my favorite new feature. Congratulations are in order, I don't even ignore ZRB, and I can count on one hand the number of times I have agreed with him. Flutie - not only have your points been intelligently countered, they have been absolutely destroyed, not only by Clutch but by numerous other members of this BBS. Your response, "Nuh-uh". You have continued to spit out the same non-sense over and over again, and insulted people while asking that they not insult you. Simply because someone is able to rip your foolish claims to shreds does not mean that they are insulting you. And one last thing - The Rockets are better than the Raptors. We had similar records, but you play in a joke of a conference and in the worst division in basketball, a division we SWEPT. Add in that we absolutely destroyed you twice and in neither game you were close and I think that is convincing proof that the Rockets are a superior team to the Raptors. And please don't use the LA-Seattle analogy again, I have already shown how that is a poor comparison. Flee back to the morass that is the ESPN message boards. Perhaps their your non-sensical ramblings and half-truths and out-right fabrications will go unchallenged. But not here. Have a nice day, this will be my last response to you.
There's an old saying: "Constitution gives every jackass the right to bray." So, go ahead and tell us your opinion. Just be prepared to get shredded. However, don't come back with this crying s***. If you get that upset, just take your toys and go home. I'm sure alot of people would celebrate if you took that advice.
....OK, then...where do I start? First of all, I have to say that I am disappointed with the nature of this thread...and that's going both ways...(My book, How To Make Friends On The Internet goes on sale next month, although my editors are considering renaming the title How To Alienate Both Sides Of An Argument Before Making A Single Point.) While I have tended to disagree with a lot of the things Flutie has said in here over the course of the last few weeks, and more significantly, the way he has said them, I do think he has some points in this point worthy of more than knee jerk reactionism....I'll get to those in a minute, but first I want to give my 2 cents worth on this Hakeem "Hatin'"... It does really bother me. For years I have been upset with the kind of emotional backlashes that inevitably follow a pro athlete leaving Toronto...Stoudamire, Alomar, T-Mac, etc..all were fan favorites, yet the moment they made a business decision about, incredibly, their business situations, they were vilified in the press and by fans..Suddenly there were long standing flaws in their character/game play which these same fans had only been graciously overlooking due to their loyal nature, but which were now fair game. Either that, or the negotiations which lead to their departure revealed their "true nature" which had previously been hidden away...Frankly, it's all crap. And before those of you who have pointed out Hakeem's age, etc. before the trade, I would respond that I am talking about this in a general manner, and the general tone/content of these posts have plummeted since Hakeem decided to leave. I will admit that being a fan of both teams, I don't really lose the way exclusive Rockets fans will, but I have related experience... That's another point I want to address...Clutch..you said something to the effect that Toronto fans have no comparison to the Houston/Hakeem situation, thus they shouldn't advise on how Houston fans should feel. While I agree that there is no ABSOLUTE parallel, I would argue that it's impossible to find absolute parallels for any situation given the various factors..However, I feel Toronto has had a VERY SIMILAR situatuon. Allow me to elaborate : When Robbie Alomar came to Toronto he was a raw but talented foreign born player with incredible natural gifts, a flair for the game, and a classy personality. He grew with the city and team. The Bllue Jays at the time had suffered through years of dissapointment and underachieveing, and incidents like losing to the inferior Royals in '85, and blowing the last 7 straight games down the stretch in '87 to the less talented Tigers had made the team synonymous with failing under pressure...or "choking", if you prefer. Alomar's play improved to the point when many considered him the best all-around player in the game, and his franchise-defining home-run off Dennis Eckersly to win the ALCS propelled the Jays tho their first of BACK TO BACK CHAMPIONSHIPS...At the same time Alomar became the darling of the city, routinely called the most popular Torontonian, with the usual " Alomar for Mayor...No, Alomar for Prime Minister!" signs in evidence everywhere. Like Texas is the Holy Land of football, Toronto is the Holy Land of Hockey, yet baseball became THE ticket, as every game was sold out, and the Jays set MLB records for 3 consecutive years for attendance....Then, suddenly, everything went wrong...injuries, complacency, league labour disruptions ruined the team, and following a couple of trade-demands followed by reconciliations, Alomar excercised his free agent status and left for greener pastures... Clutch, while I agree that Hakeem's much longer stay (especially if you include college), and the more prominent role he played are factors which make the situatuations differ, remember that it works both ways..While Hakeem's longer stay in Houston makes it more emotional, Alomar left with a lot more in the tank, which makes THAT harder to take..Add in the fact that Alomar left less than one full season (strike) after the back-to-backs, and was accompanied by Devon White, Al Leiter, Paul Molitor, etc..., and the fact that all this happened despite the afore-mentioned attendance records, and you can see that, well, they are COMPARIBLE. The very nature of the sport allows for an individual player to dominate more in basketball, and I agree that Hakeem means more to Houston than Alomar did to Toronto, due primarily to duration, I still say that there is a lot of common ground, certainly enough for Torontonians to empathize... Ok, back to Hakeem. I had thought that this type of post-partum sniping was a Toronto thing, and I still think that we are more sensitive to it given all the Canada-bashing/ player departures we endure, I am sad to see it in Houston too. Again, this is a genral comment, but I find it a remerkable phenomonen. People in here (yes, SOME people) are suggesting that Hakeem drew out negotiations so that the Rockets couldn't go after other free agents in some sort of petty Parthian shot. Others contend that his only priority was money. Still other suggest that the Rockets showed loyalty while Hakeem showed ego. And finally, there's a lot of " I'll laugh when he's on the I.R, not playing well, gets hurt, etc. etc..." Wow! You CAN interpret the facts to suggest any one of those things...Perspectives are free and you don't need a liscence to use one. What confuses me is why any real Houston fan would...Let's go over this again..This is a man who has played here for 17 years, been repeatedly called a "warrior", "Classy", etc.etc...He has demonstrated his character and class over and over again...and it earned him how much credit? To suggest that the negotiations showed what he was really made of might be true...in the reverse of the manner suggested...Let's review.. Hakeem was offered MORE MONEY, on a team with significantly BETTER PLAYOFF POTENTIAL (East/ West, etc.), to play in a system that he will HAVE A MORE SIGNIFICANT ROLE, and also SUITS HIS ABILITIES BETTER....and it still took him a long time to decide...Is there another way we might interpret these facts? Might his loyalty have been the cause of the delay? I'm not suggesting that it's the only way of reading the facts, but hasnt' he earned THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!?!?!? How can this guy show year after year of unquestioned class and desire, and suddenly his situation is interpreted in the most petty way imaginable? Doesn't what we know about his desire/pride/competitiveness explain his decision to leave? And doesn't his class/loyalty explain why it took so long? Or, at the very least, COULDN't that be one way to look at it, a way which his tenure here has earned? It's not like he's said anything bad about the situation, the city, or the fans...He's just expressed a desire to be more competitive, play a more signifiv=cant role, and maybe experience a little change in his life...I say a real fan would accord him the benefit of the doubt he has earned, not by being a good basketball player, but by being a class individual, and wish him luch with HIS LIFE and HIS CAREER. The rest just makes us look small... ok, I may have more later, but my hands hurt... P.S..Clutch, how did you get those graph/spreadsheet thingies onto the screen? Can anyone do it, or were you excercising Administrator privilege?
I was going to give your argument a chance, but after you said that Robby Alomar was classy, I didn't consider anything else you said. Let me ask you a question: wasn't he the guy that spit at an umpire? Yea, that's real classy!!!
What a classy post Flutie. Nobody took personal shots at you, I definitely didn't call you a troll, I just wondered why you called all Rocket fans muslim bashers because of something read on another post. But if you want to drag this into the gutter, feel free to visit the ESPN or Rivals/Alliance boards. I'm sure you would be welcomed there with open arms!
Is it going to be the press conference when Dream and Lenny Wilkens explain why they didn't win the NBA championship next year? Or is it the one when you sign Dream and lock up your cap space, and can't fill your needs after Dream retires?
...sigh...Yes, he was the player who spit on the umpire...that happened in that debacle of a year when everything fell apart that I mentioned...What was so shocking about it was that he had been an incredible class act before that. In fact, THAT was the "flaw" that everyone refrerred to after he left as to why we were better off without him...Which fact has obviously been proven correct...er...anyways...My point, if you read it, was about his character/behaviour during his ascendance...his later disgusting outburst doesn't alter history...
Flutie, get off Hakeem's jock, it sounds as if he is paying your bills or something. Let's run down Dream's comments. First, we should try to sign our free agents, we do not need Chris Webber. Second, the Rockets have paid over $31 mil the last two years for injuries, complaining (he's not getting the rock enough), and he said he was retiring. I think management (Les) made a great decision in letting him go to Toronto and they even accommodated his desire with a sign and trade for $4 mil more, which will get sucked up by Canadian taxes and higher cost of living (maintaining 2 households is expensive). From my viewpoint, Dream owes the Rockets, who have paid handsomely for 2 championships in the Mid 90's. Should the Rockets and Fans pay forever, I think not. Yes, Dream sold out for the money, which any business man would do in his case.
Actually Flutie, Dream's agent told the Rockets he wouldn't be listening to any other offers made by them so in reality they couldn't match Toronto's. On the la/seattle thing. Basketball is a game of match-ups. A great team could be taken out by a not so great team if the match-ups aren't in their favor. Some feel The Rockets wouldn't have won their championships if they had to play seattle in the playoffs. Seattle always had The Rockets' number. At the same time many say the unstoppable bulls wouldn't have been able to take The Rockets at that time even with Jordan. Now things can always change because great teams step it up when need be, but I would think if the lakers lost 2 or 3 games to the sonics they would come out with even more intensity to beat them at least one time. Who's to say that if the sonics played the lakers in the playoffs they wouldn't have won the series (although I don't think it would've the way the lakers got hot at the right time.)
I AM SO TIRED OF ALL THESE GOD DARN THREADS.... Flutie, come on, you're way overanalyzing the situation, makes you look silly....I mean I maybe a hater to the thread you've pulled but I really did enjoy that ONE game you had for BC.... HAIL ME.
