Well Flutie, when you come onto THIS board and accuse people of ripping Hakeem's religion because of something you read on ANOTHER board, you asked for it. Especially when you know how sensitive the Dream situation is. And maybe Clutch pulled out the stats to show that the Rockets didn't just beat Toronto, they destroyed them in BOTH match-ups. It's one thing for the Clippers to rise up and beat the Lakers, when a team decimates another team like the Rockets did to the Raptors it is painfully obvious who the better team is, particularly when their records were so similar. Actually after you made that unnecessary crack numerous people asked you for a response, you ducked the response and posted something else, then people asked you AGAIN, and THEN you made this post!
Ohhhhh, so saying the Rockets will suck next season is a good thing? Here's a novel idea, when someone from another board is "hating" on Dream's religion, why don't you go bother them instead of take it to us as if we care what happens at the ESPN boards.... And quit with the "I can have an opinion too!" cry, no one said you couldn't have an opinion, we also have the right to rip into your opinion and let you know how uniformed or wrong your opinion is. You said in certain games, Dream only got 3-4 shots, yes, this is true, but you make it sound like it was because of the Rockets holding Dream back, well if you actually saw the games (which I doubt you have), then you would know that Dream played like crap for many games early in the season. He even admitted recently to not being totally devoted to getting in playing shape, DUDE WAS GETTING SCHOOLED BY MICHAEL FREAKING OLOWOKANDI FOR CRYING OUTLOUD! Nice try at making it sound like it was the Rockets fault Dream sucked so much early on though. You have no clue what it's like to love a player for 17+ years (college ball and pro ball) in the same city. That's a lot of emotions shared by the city for him. He was almost traded 2 years ago, but Rudy stopped it because of loyalty, even Dream talked about spending his entire career in Houston. Everyone thought last season would be his final season, it was going to be the Dream farewell tour, but Dream all of a sudden changed his mind (which is fine) about retiring. The perfect career has now been tarnished though in the eyes of many Rockets fans. I don't care what you say, but no one's going to give a damn about Toronto when they write the book on Dream's career. It's all about Houston, and it hurts to see him leave like that, especially when for over 2 years, you believed he was going to be a Houston lifer. It hasn't even been a week, of course people are going to be hurt and upset and calling Dream every name in the book. Some people just don't react well to things like that. I believe probably within a few months, all will be forgiven and there will be very few "haters" on this board. Right now people are pissed though and they need to vent somehow. Until you experience having a sports icon spend his entire college and pro career in toronto, only to leave for some other city for a little 2 to 3 year stint, please quit trying to tell us how we should feel 3 days after our icon has left us for an extra $3 million.
AP or Toronto media, you're admitting it wasn't us that thought posed the question. So "I'm sorry you", too. Uh, no. Any player is going to have nights where he doesn't shoot much -- which is why we bring out <B>averages</B>. Hakeem shooting 3-4 times in a game? It happened a grand total of 5 times in his 58 outings -- 3 times in the <em>first 6 games</em> then twice the <em>rest of the season</em>. The first time was after returning from a <strong>12-game absence due to an injury</strong> and the second time was because he played just 10 minutes and <strong>got injured</strong> -- and it was believed he would be out the rest of the year and beyond. I mean, what more do I have to say? I thought saying Hakeem shot 10 times a game would do it, but I guess not. For some reason this justified, "How the hell can the Dream be happy when he's <strong>being used that poorly</strong>? How can you give <strong>Mo Taylor more shots than Hakeem</strong>?" If you can't handle the averages, then ignore them. Thanks! Now as to why -- you said the Rockets would "suck" for a few years because Hakeem left. My point in bringing up what I did is that same roster that now suddenly "sucks" was <em>just as effective</em> as the one that had Hakeem... and in fact beat the Raptors twice. Somehow I guess that makes me immature. My goodness - find a paper bag and breathe in to it. Not everyone is dissing him. Many are happy for him and for the Rockets for moving on and not caving to higher demands. Nice rip as a cover up. This response would work if you hadn't responded to a message after your initial post, ignoring the two direct questions previous. You implied people here were ripping on his religion so of course we're not going to take that lightly. Apology accepted. Sorry, I guess I misunderstood when you said the Rockets were going to "suck" as a result of losing Hakeem. No one here is blocking your opinion... but that doesn't mean we're going to respect much what you have to say about some users' differing views of a player that we've been following for over 20 years.
Oh, the famous stretch run: @New Jersey - L - 111-113 Sacramento - L 118-119 (OT) @Washington - W 106-99 Cleveland - W 101-89 @Atlanta - W 95-88 New Jersey - W 107-90 New York - W 98-88 @Sacramento - L 91-98 @LA Lakers - L 85-97 @Seattle - W 110-99 @Vancouver - W 101-84 Milwaukee - L 97-101 @New York - L 72-88 Indiana - W - 102-81 Charlotte - L - 95-111 Atlanta - W - 112-86 Vancouver - W - 102-92 @Miami - W - 101-92 New Jersey - W - 110-99 Orlando - L - 101-104 Philadelphia - W - 100-85 @Cleveland - W - 97-94 @Orlando - W - 108-100 Chicago - W - 100-88 @Detroit - L - 87-99 Miami - W - 94-82 @Milwaukee - L - 86-112 Detroit - W - 94-92 (OT) @Washington - W - 98-92 19-10 Record vs. West Playoff teams: 0-3 (Sacramento (2), LAL) Record vs. East Playoff teams: 6-5 (New York (2), Miami (2), Philadelphia, Orlando (2), Milwaukee (2), Indiana, Charlotte) (Sorry if I missed any other games) A scorching 6-8 against playoff teams in that "great" stretch. Beating up on Vancouvers and Clevleands doesn't constitute "greatness". Take a look at the Toronto record vs. the "Big 3" of the West, Sacramento, LA, and San Antonio. A 1-5 record, the lone win being @San Antonio, which is good. But then, they drubbed you by 18 in Toronto. --------------------------- Hakeem played some of his best games during Ramadan. Comments like "The Rockets were never really in the running" hurt. What have we spent the last month doing? We could've been talking to Marc Jackson or Webber, or had gotten Mo signed by now. Hakeem has asked Houston to be loyal to him before, when it suited him (see quotes like my sig, if you'd like me to pull up my thread filled with quotes from '99, I will). Leaving the way he did, makes it hard for me to cheer for him right now. Maybe this feeling will go away later (after Kelvin Cato becomes the premier center in the league ) but if the playoffs were tomorrow, I wouldn't be pulling for him. You make it sound like we should become Raptors fans. The majority of Raptor fans aren't enthralled with Mo Taylor for leaving (for less money), a guy with no history in Toronto. If you take away the past, which Hakeem claimed was what he wanted to do when making his decision, should our feelings for Hakeem be any different than Raptor fan's views of Mo Taylor?
Clutch, I'm not trying to attack you or any other poster but you seem to feel I'm dissing you personally. If you need to pick apart my post and insult me, then go ahead. I must've deleted part of my post by accident. I guess that's grounds for a personal attack on this board... RocksMillenium, I answered the question. GET OVER IT. I apologized. Holy ****, I didn't realize there was a code in this message board on how to post! I freakin' skim over half the things people write! If you people can't accept my apology about the muslim comment, then there is nothing I can do. Clutch, grow up man. RocksMillenium and Clutch really need to get lives and realize that posting on a message board there isn't a sacred code on how to post on the ClutchCity message boards. I'm replying now. It's the truth. I made a mistake and am admitting that mistake. Honestly though, what do you expect the Rockets to do in the west without a low post presence? Will Kelvin Cato magically step up? Will Mo Taylor be a great C? Will Jason Collier even play this year? If you can't make the playoffs, then I consider that sucking. I honestly don't see the Rockets making the playoffs for a few years unless Eddie Griffin gives you MASSIVE numbers this year. I don't feel he's ready for that. Hey Clutch, why did you conveniently respond to only certain parts of my post? Please stop DUCKING my points and give me a response. Or are you a hypocrite? Is Seattle better than L.A? Answer me that. By your logic, they are. If that's true, why should I listen to anything you have to say? Gimme a reason. Stop ducking it. Let's not turn this into a Raptors vs. Rockets thread PLEASE! Let's get back to the topic at hand instead of attacking people. I really thought this board would be better than the ESPN one but the people here just seem to have horrible mean streaks.
He wanted to stay but he also wanted to get fair market value. When Toronto gave it's biggest offer (3yr 16mil), Houston had PLENTY of time to match it. Even if you lose Shandon Anderson, so what? I'd rather have Hakeem/Mo/Moochie than Mo/Shandon/Moochie, even if Shandon is young. Houston had **** attendance last year and without Dream go you really think it will be better? Will people pay to see Cato? The way he worked it, Houston had plenty of time to give him the money he wanted. Had they dont that, he would have stayed. I remember reading a post on here that the Rockets hadn't even met with him or his agent until the Rocky Mountain Revue(I think). How the hell can that be?
He probaby hasn't responded to your points, Flutie, because you haven't made any. As for LA/Seattle - Unless LA and Seattle had simlar records, and Los Angeles played in a division that Seattle <b>swept</b> - that is a poor analogy.
So you're one of the people who feel Dream's career is tarnished by leaving Houston? Obviously Dream doesn't feel that way. Why should you? Do you know what's best for him? Do you understand that it probably wasn't about the money. It was a lack of respect. The Rockets obviously are telling him that they wanted him around... just not very much. Hakeem obviously wants to feel wanted, which he didn't feel that way with the Rockets. It's like this: You've worked with a company for 20 years. You think you're gonna receive a nice fat pension and instead they give a pair of cufflinks and a week long trip to Florida. How would you feel? Yeah, it's a bad analogy but you get the idea.
The 16 million he got last year isn't a big fat pension? Even if it wasn't, I wouldn't leave the company because I was going to get two pairs of shiny cufflinks and a week-long trip to Florida from some other team.
They already gave him the pension in his last contract when he said he was going to retire after last year. What he did, in effect, was say, 'wow, that was fun, lets do it again. Give me another pension this year."
Because he felt slighted by it. What do you Rockets fans think Hakeem is worth? Let's say he provides 10/8/2 ball like he did last year and played 55 games next year. Is he worth what the Raptors payed him? Take into consideration all the on and off court factors. I say YES. Even if it means losing out on Shandon Anderson's services.
"Clutch, grow up man. RocksMillenium and Clutch really need to get lives and realize that posting on a message board there isn't a sacred code on how to post on the ClutchCity message boards." And you cry about personal attacks...that's pathetic... I'm not going to respond to any of your ESPN style posts, I suggest you either get a clue or go back to the ESPN boards. I hope you enjoy those 30+ games that Dream's on the IR...
He felt slighted by our offer, yet the Raptors offer, which was not significantly more was respectful? I would not pay more that 4 million for a player who will not play more than 55 games, nor would I have even thought about giving a 40-yr old a three year contract. I don't think so.
Flutie -- I think you have a problem. You don't like it when your points are intelligently proven wrong, take it as an insult and in turn lash out, accusing anyone who corrects you of making it personal. Have I called you any names to be insulting you? No. I think you're just making stuff up. I accepted your apology, yet you imply I didn't by telling me to "grow up". Heed your own advice. You've taken this thread way, way too personally. I guess it makes you feel better to say I'm ducking you on something since you have been so absolutely proven wrong on every other point. There's nothing to duck here. You're right -- teams do have matchup advantages. The Sonics (44-39, good enough for the playoffs in the East) apparently beat the Lakers (56-26) all 4 times they faced them. My point was the Rockets were just as good with Hakeem as they were without him, including beating the Raptors twice. You're focusing on just the Raptors mention -- dismissing it as a "suck" team that just has a matchup advantage (albeit a big one) over your "non-suck" Raptors. So be it -- you're entitled to your opinion. Doesn't change the fact the Rockets had the same winning percentage with or without Dream. But if you want an advantageous matchup, how about this: The Rockets beat <strong>every single team in the East</strong> 25 out of 30 times. If it's fair to say any team that doesn't make the playoffs "sucks", then it's just as fair to say the Raptors would "suck" if they were in the West and the Rockets would be a "non-suck" team in the East. Toronto is a contender in the East. They are a borderline playoff team in the West. Period. Deal with it. Also, when you b**** and moan next time about insults, remember who implied who was a "hypocrite" and needed to "get a life" here... then maybe you can stop ignoring the absolute destruction of your claim that Hakeem must be miserable in Houston, being so poorly used. All 5 of those whopping games he shot just 3-4 times. Funny.... I thought you had already lumped us together, given the way you handled the anti-Muslim accusation and all
I love dream,always have and always will.Unfortunately I'm too young to have presenced all of his career,though he is why I chose houston as my basketball team,I chose him instead of jordan. BUT,I love him for what he did,when I think about hakeem this year this just pops in my mind ( http://www.clutchcity.net/game.cfm?gameID=85 ). If you are too lazy to read flutie,then I'll be nice with you and take out the important phrase,written by Clutch,a huge rockets-loving fan: One play that was bizarre saw Mo Taylor make a gorgeous behind the back pass to Hakeem for a wide open dunk. Dream jumped and went up for the vicious one-hand slam, but was rejected hard by the bottom of the rim. This was 3 games into the season,the one he said was prepeared for and worked out all summer,just admit it,we are better off right now looking at the future and you are just overpaying an other team's legend. Dont try to argue with everyone,if you're happy the raps got him,fine,but dont come bash us without facts to back you up,we can just wait peacefully until we play eachother and see Dream play....maybe cards or snake in his cellphone while his watching the game from the bench for the 30th straight game Peace,chill out.
http://protrolls.homestead.com/Protrolls.html http://protrolls.homestead.com/boards.html You give real Hakeem supporters like myself a bad name.
