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Rockets dead worst in T/O per game (Harden = worst in NBA / Dwight = worst in PF/C)

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rudy, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. Rudy

    Rudy Member

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    Team Turnovers:

    Houston Rockets = 18.1 (worst in the league)


    Player Turnovers:

    James Harden = 4.0 (1st among Turnover No. Statistics)
    - Worst in the entire league

    Dwight Howard = 3.1 (9th among Turnover No. Statistics)
    - Worst among all PF & C in the league

    We have almost 3 players in the Top 20 in Player Turnovers Per Game (Jeremy Lin is #21). James Harden leads the whole league in T/O per game, while Dwight Howard leads all big men and is the only one averaging more than 3 T/O per game among both positions, 4.4 for every 48 mins.

    Really not much of a surprise about how bad we are in Turnovers, but we're actually oustandingly much worst this year (18.1) compared to last year (15.8) by a strikingly significant gap, yikes! We really got to clean it up.
     
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  2. Voice of Aus

    Voice of Aus Contributing Member

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    Morey always address this in the same manner, he doesn't really care that it is so high because we get a a lot of off rebounds and out pace of our game gives us more possessions which gives us more opportunities to create a TO. It's really not a big concern in the grand scheme of things
     
  3. mollamar

    mollamar Contributing Member

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    I'm going to give you rep for using the phrases "oustandingly much worst" and "strikingly significant."

    As in, this thread is not the outstandingly much worst thread I've seen today by a strikingly significant margin.
     
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  4. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    As bad as our turnovers are, we are still a very efficient offensive team. How often do teams score off those turnovers? I'm more concerned with that.
     
  5. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Dwight has higher TO's because he insists on posting. Harden has the highest TO's because he dominates the ball in one of the fastest pace offenses in the league.
     
  6. bmd

    bmd Member

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    It usually works out to about 1 point per turnover.

    So if your team turns the ball over 18 times, your team is giving up about 18 points per game off of turnovers.
     
  7. bmd

    bmd Member

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    Not only that... but a lot of his game consists of dribbling into the lane for a lay-up.

    That style of play, while efficient, also results in some turnovers because you are taking the ball into traffic.
     
  8. Rudy

    Rudy Member

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    Good question.

    Only thing I can find is that we are ranked almost last in the league (#27) in forcing opponent's T/O per game at 13.7, and near last again (#24) in converting those T/O into points at 15.5 a game.

    I also found that Dwight Howard who averages 3.1 T/O per game actually turns the ball much more than the League's average starting PG at 2.73 a game. Oh boy.
     
  9. Thefabman

    Thefabman Member
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    How bout we let them develop a season of chemistry first before we see how big a problem turnovers are instead of only a month. I will agree that so far their turnover rate is ridiculous though but I don't think it'll be 18 all season.
     
  10. Play07

    Play07 Member

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    this was a problem last year with harden, this is something consider people who say "the ball needs has to be in hardens hand" all summer about the starting pg situation. Harden was a 6th man in OKC asked to score when he came in the game not a pg. He basically changed positions when he came here. He has done good in Houston “best SG in NBA” I would like his TOs to go down to 3 but I’m not too concerned about his because of the points, assist, and double teams he gives the team on the offensive side.

    now MR. $22,000,000 now thats a different story & people give excuses for howard saying he doesn’t get enough a touches ummmmmm I think that’s why McHales the coach & not you. Im sure he is aware of these numbers.
     
  11. bmd

    bmd Member

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    Dwight is the worst in my opinion. He's the only player where I'm cringing the entire time he has the ball in the post because I know he's about to get the ball stolen, dribble it off of his foot, step out of bounds, gets an offensive foul, etc.

    It seems like he turns the ball over in the post more times than he doesn't.
     
  12. Falcao

    Falcao Rookie

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    Turnovers are acceptable as long as you're playing overall good basketball.

    One exception would be if you're Asian.
     
  13. eman

    eman Contributing Member
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    It's no paradox, even though it sounds like it: the stickier the ball, the looser the ball.
     
  14. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    GTFO loser...
     
  15. howo13579

    howo13579 Member

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    I don't mind Harden's TOs. He controls the ball in a fast pace team. Howard's TOs on the other hand are just so predictable and dumb. Probably 60% of his post up resulted TO. We really need to stop letting Howard posting up. For 10 years with his talent and size, he couldn't even learn how to do it properly, he must have fewest brain cells amoung NBA players.
     
  16. RocketRaccoon

    RocketRaccoon Contributing Member

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    Not as concerned about this as previous years. I guess I'm thinking lack of chemistry/rhythm is compounding the problem. We're pretty explosive and fast...we will trip more often.
     
  17. basketballholic

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    [​IMG]



    This shows we should be concerned that we could have a turnover problem. We have the highest turnover rate in the league and the largest turnover disparity in the league. We turn the ball over more than anybody else as a percentage of possessions and we generate less turnovers defensively than any other team as a percentage of possessions.

    What is saving us is the fact that we get to the FT line more often then anybody else in the league as a percentage of shots taken and we are 4th in the league in keeping our opponents off the line and we are first in the difference.


    The keys to watch for on this team as currently constructed is our FT shooting percentage. We are currently at 70% as a team. That's pretty much the threshhold of what you have to be at to win a championship. I think there's only one team in the last 25 years (maybe longer) that won a championship shooting below 70% from the FT line (one of the Shaq-led Laker teams....probably the team that should have lost to Sac) and they were barely below the 70% marker at like 69%.

    Ideally we need to scale back the turnovers. However to do that would require Harden becoming more conservative in his playing style (or eliminating a bunch of Dwight post-ups)...which would lead to less trips to the FT line. So that's not likely to happen much. Although I will add this...last year when Harden turned the ball over 4 or more times we usually don't win the game, our WP was around .300. This year our record has been great when he has turned the ball over more than 4 times. I attribute that to 2 factors: 1. it's still early, we have played a lot of weak competition; and 2. the addition of Howard has improved our defense and given us more latitude for turnovers offensively.

    Turnover are not a serious problem yet. But they could turn into a huge problem very easily. We are riding the edge of the envelope on turnovers.
     
  18. tarzanman

    tarzanman Member

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    Don't know what the breakdown is, but shouldn't this matter only for loses? Moreover, for those loses wouldn't the turnover differential between teams (and points off of those) be key?

    Maybe we turn the ball over less when we lose?
     
  19. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    OK, but more useful would be the difference between points allowed per possession after a turnover versus points allowed per possession otherwise. This is the per-possession defensive penalty associated with a turnover. And, surely, that penalty will be much higher for live ball turnovers.
     
  20. rocketsfeeva

    rocketsfeeva Member

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    I don't mind TO's but rather the timing of the TO's. If we're down or up by a slim margin, turning the ball over at crucial times is not acceptable even if we have a high volume of pace we play in. If anyone has any stats on how many TO's we have while in the last 5 minutes or so in the 4th quarter that could be indicative on assessing the issue.
     

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