Rockets, at this stage, better or worse than last year?

For a long time, the formula for a winning team used to be a dynamic duo, (jordan/pippen, kobe/shaq, duncan/robinson, drexler/hakeem), and alot of role players. thanks to the kings / mavs, i think the new formula is more team oriented. lakers, kings, spurs, timberwolves are pretty stacked, mavs and suns right behind them with big 3's. we just got our duo back.

and the only eastern team i might take seriously are the nets: kidd, zo, jefferson.

i dont really care about posey, the polish rifle, or adrian.
the real question is, who's going to step up.
i hope it's eddie griffin.

 

I couldn't be happier with the Rockets moves so far this offseason. Give Van Gundy a chance with these kids. If it still doesn't work out, call a firesale.

 

Hey Sane, isn't this my take? But I guess you can never get the idea accross to some stubborn heads. They keep crying "we lost KT for nothing, we lost KT for nothing. We lost Posey for nothing, we lost Posey for nothing..." They just don't realize you lose some you win some. They don't ask how we can pick up Pike, AG and another one or two players while still keep either KT or Posey. I guess Pike, AG and another one or two players we will pick up mean "nothing" to them. If this is nothing, I am pretty happy with "nothing". And 80% fans are happy with this "nothing".

 

NO offence but I think it sucks. Mabey if K-Mart were to play for what he is worth but not twice a s much. Now make that Brand and you have a deal.

 

i think we are better now with a.griffin, pike, and the "soon-to-be-signed-player" than posey. posey can only defend, slash to the hoop, and run up and down the court. a.griffin can do all that too. minus the offensive game of posey of course. then we have pike who's extremely dangerous at the 3-point. with the rocs inside-out play, they are so dangerous with steve, cat, and pike on the perimeter waiting to sink a triple. posey cant do that. so, imo, it may look like the rocs lost something with posey leaving, but if you look at it deeper, the rocs actually gained alot by letting posey go.

 

From Sane:

You play Griffin for 20 minutes and his back will give out. He's simply not the type of player that folks here are making him out to be. He's the 10th guy off the bench who gets exposed when he's played too much. The fact that he's been on winning teams at Dallas is moot. Dallas is a scoring machine while Houston is not. Griffin was merely a bit player there and not a major reason for their success.

Rice is done. PERIOD. He's not the answer at SF (never was really) and it really doesn't matter if he's playing for a contract as he will not be around here after this season. Pike is a one-dimensional player who is a defensive liability - he's your insurance for WHEN Rice gets hurt. Like AG, the more he plays the more he gets exposed. His shooting will help them but his defense will hurt them so I guess it all evens out. Yao will be improved but we'll have to wait and see how big a step up he takes this year.

All in all, these moves (losing Posey while adding AG & EP) really have done very little to improve their ability to compete with the other teams in their division. Faced with their dismal salary cap situation, it's the about the best that CD and Co. could pull off this off season. These are DEFINITELY not the type of moves that will make or break the team next season - they are merely small attempts to prevent the team from drifting further downward.

 

The only fallacy in this premise is that you can play only one of those players at a time. That's why one all-around player is better than three players who are top notch in one dimension and sub-par in the others. However, for now I will trust the overall organizational expertise.

Oh, nooooo, Hillboy and I agree on something (see above and below).

 

From a basketball perspective, it was a blunder to move KT, I agree. Of the 3 guys at PF, his play was the most effective and would have really worked well under JVG's new system. The real REAL blunder was giving MoT that big contract and trading 3 first round picks to get a guy (EG) who has yet to show much of anything on the court.

The fact is, however, that KT wanted a big contract - one that the Rockets could not accomodate so they traded him rather than lose him once the season ended. They also knew that it was very possible that they could lose Posey as well if someone offered him more than their MLE (and guess what ended up happening).

I think folks here are making the mistake of looking at these as BASKETBALL moves when in fact they were FINANCIAL moves dictated by the Rockets' inability to pay market price for either player due to their salary cap constraints.

 

definitely.......u get 2 players who bring two different things to the table. U get a legit scorer w/ Pike and a guy that plays hardnosed w/ lockdown D in AGriff. Plus they're both cheaper than PoZ.

Let him go to Memphis, we'll wave bye to him and the Grizz when we ride into the playoffs this year.

 

we had a logjam at the 4. Movin KT was our best option. We didnt wanna get rid of Griff yet w/ all his "potential" and Nobody wants Mo's contract. We needed to get rid of one of them. KT had the least red tape and he was valuable to many teams.

 

You said it, I numbered it, I'll now answer them

1) Never said they should have traded E.Griffin. Never suggested it either, I did say he didn't deserve the playing time

2)You said you shouldn't play a guy because he is playing better than anybody else at the position I have to admit you've totally lost me on that point

3) Never said it, never suggested it, don't know where you got that one from. I did suggest he wouldn't become dominant until he gets a full offseason away from the Chinese National Team. But what that has to do with what you wrote is

4) So far he has been. I hope he works out because at the time they traded for him I thought we made a great deal. Can't dribble, doesn't rebound well, doesn't get inside position, doesn't shoot well, stands at the 3 point line, walks like a stiff, talks like a stiff, it usually is a stiff

5) Never said it, never suggested it, don't know where your pulling that one from either.

6) I like his game, I think he's under rated but as a Rox player he's broken down a bunch

7) Agreed wholeheartedly, did say that

8) Up until now he hasn't deserved that many minutes

9)Never said that, never suggested that, don't know where you got that one either, maybe your mixing my posts with yours

10) Never said that, never suggested that, deja vu huh(DVH)

11) Never said that, never suggested that DVH. Actually feel sorry for the guy he gives his all and is the warrior on this team.

12) Never said that, never suggested that, are you sure you've been arguing with me??

13) Never said that, never suggested that

14) As for who's been on more winning teams, I think if Posey was on Dallas for most of his career and Griffin was with Denver somehow I think that record would be reversed, what's your point

 

1-for-1, probably none of them is as good as Posey.
However, both Pike and AG can play 2 and 3, so they can be played at same time. Also they add depth to our team. You need a 12-men roster if you don't want to crash at the end of a season.

 

KMart is one of my favorite players in the league. Despite his poor shooting streak in the finals, he has strength, moves, and an attitude. I love his work ethic. He would make the Rockets very competitiive, but he is toooooooo expensive.

 

Better.

 

Canoner--I know you like me have fairly mediocre expectations next year (similar record as last year though 500 should get you the 8th seed in the west thgis year), I don't think most fans do.

Let see how much of this "80% happy fan base" is happy mid season after so many good efforts by Yao, SF & Cat are lost because they other guys are so sucky (as far as hanging with NBA level starters at least). Let see how many fans are happy when our defense gets toasted because of the lack of athleticism and length in the forward spots when our offensive team is in (Mo at the 4/Pike at the 3) and when we can't hit the broad side of the barn door and still get shot over/pushed around with our smallish defensive team in (AG at the 3/EG at the 4).

So basically I wouldn't put too much weight in the 80% of current fan sentiment. I put more weight in who is more on target with their assement down the line (who was right with the results in). I can honestly say I hope I am wrong where Boki will be 3X the long term fixture Posey could have been and AG and Pike develop all around games and as role players help us beat out some 2nd tier WC playoff teams--I doubt it though.

We had Pike signed for half the MLE and oppertunnity to sign Posey through Full Bird Rights that we explored for a full 15 days--the "how can we keep" has an obvious unambigious answer. We decided not to spend the money to match Posey after signing Pike & AG--it was entirely within out front offices control.

I can't speak for others, but I never said they are "nothing". Pike was an early offseason target of mine. AG was one of the guys I mentioned to pursue if Posey was not matched. After reviewing all the realistic FAs including these I concluded keeping our own (Posey) was the best route, much preferably but not exlusively with Pike signed as well.

So it isn't that Pike and AD are "nothing", it is that JP was a "something" better than those guys combined in my view.

Finally, lack of depth isn't near as big of problem and far easier to acquire in this league than is the lack of capable starters. Further I think our depth wasn't that bad last year--certainly better than Phoenix who beat us out for the playoff spot, and our moves so far this offseason have had the wrong priorities by downgrading our current/future potential starting lineup.

 

Sane, can you email me please.

 

Agreed, but his level of play was/is much better than what we have at that position right now which is NOTHING.

This is yet another example of what happens when you give out bad contracts - in this case Mo Taylor. We've already seen how Moochie's contract has prevented their making a move for Travis Best. I firmly believe that KT was traded simply because both EG & Mo T have no trade value. EG had showed nothing before or since that trade to justify their "official" reason for making the trade. They gave up too much to get EG and to date, have gotten back very little in return. With the loss of Posey, they now have nothing to show for the whole mess and have added another hole to plug on this team.

KT had played well for them ever since he was drafted and a contract in the $6-$8 million range would not have been that much out of wack for a productive player of his ilk. If money had to be spent, I would have preferred to have seen them spend it on productive players they drafted like KT. This would be a much better team with KT than it is now. While he's not a franchise player, he is the type of complementary player you need to contend in the West.

The problem is that they gave Mo T that big fat contract to sit behind the uninspired EG and have basically gotten VERY little back and now can't move him - no one will take on that much money for such an average, flawed player. So they are effectively blocked from improving the team. So now you see them going dumpster diving for castoffs such as Adrian Griffin for whom it would take a miracle to make it through the season uninjured.

Put it this way: whom would you prefer to have right now, KT or AG?

 

here's my take-

There is no way that any of us, that are not involved with the rockets organization, and their day to day operations, have any clue about anything that goes on behind the scenes in the organzation.

And no matter how many of us have basketball minds, or how much we with virtual GM, or how many "hypothetically speaking" ideas we have, we are all clueless.

All of the information that we get is from cable, the internet, sports radio, the newspaper, and hearsay.

And Guess where the above get THEIR info from?

It seems like the blind leading the blind.

So, anyways, my take on the season-

This season will exist.

that's it.

You can be a pessimist, or an optimist.

Sit back, wait, and enjoy. It's entertainment.

Damn, I wish the season would start because all of this organization bashing from "fans" is ridiculous.

Face it, they are in the NBA for a reason.
They know what they are doing.
It's ****ed up that some of you are so judgemental of their decision making abilities.

I'm sure that if we put every decision that we made at work (like typing on a message board) on blast, we would all look like some incompetent wastes of salary.

Much respect goes to Carroll Dawson, JVG, and all of the Rockets.
I have faith in the team.

Drew

www.soundclick.com/drewpettiofteam34

 

Pettinati, I wonder if you would have said what you said if you were a Warrior fan. I assume you also believe organizations don't fu** up because they are privy to inside information. Further how does your perspective (we are all clueless dumbasses and the NBA brasses know all) explain for instance the fact Memphis thought Posey was worth an MLE and we didn't. Bottom line is somebody fu** up (ya'll know what I think, but I realize like any decision like this an unambigious verdict, if ever apparent, won't be so for some time), or one team is just in it for the dough and the other isn't.

The bottom line is the best events that happen to the Rockets and rocket fans the last few years have been lucking into Yao and lucking into Francis. The less than no-brainer, difficult, decisions like drafts outside of the #1 pick, trades, FA acquisitions, and salary decisions have not turned out so well lately. Not terrible and with some good moves (Mobes drafting and resigning, KT drafting)--but far from exceptional and certainly not worthy of a title of league geniuses or getting overconfident about.

Personally I say the not signing Posey is a bad organization sign because it means we are making our own prior bad contract decisions dictate future ones instead of making the best decision at the time even if we have to pay the piper for those prior bad decisions, this is my opinion of course, you are entitled to your own. I also think as lucky as we were to land Yao/SF and as profitable as the Rockets have been the last couple of years it really sucks we are not spending extra to get those two keystones the best help we can. I honsetly don't see why more Rocket fans are not irate, but I assure you they will be if we don't make the playoffs, or maybe even if we do make it as an 8th seed but do it pretty ugly (only get in because Malone/Stockton retired and get swept int he 1st round).

If you want to see fickle overreacting fans wait until some road loses are strung together.