Rockets, at this stage, better or worse than last year?

both you and smoothie are quite correct.

Griffin was signed with a minimum salary exception. You can sign anyone and anytime to the mandated minimum salary.

The other two exceptions are the MLE and the $1m exception. The $1m exception is actually $1.5m at this time.

So, we have half the MLE to use = $2.5m, and
we have the full $1.5m exception to use.

We still have two more options over signing minimum contracts.

 

sigh,

i meant you are *not* quite correct.

 

canoner2002,

I'm right there with you in agreement a lot. But step back for a second and think what an off season with KT as a restricted vs Posey would look like. The keeping KT thing allows you to trade Griffin. Right now, we cannot trade Griffin, if you can. After KT soared under Larry Brown, there is some argument in it would be great to have KT and trade Griffin to fill a major need. Griffin trades are popular right now, but they suck if you don't get a PF in return. With a KT and MoT tandem, you can freely trade EG for a good SF or SG or PG. whatever strikes your fancy.

As an restricted FA asking for the Philly dollars he got, we likely would have sent him shopping for an offer sheet on the market, and the contract would likely be for less than what Philly gave. Basically, we either would have found a Griffin trade in this busy season, or we SnT KT or let him walk. Having KT as a restricted free agent is simply better than Posey as one. I think that is proven.

now, of course, this all hinges on a coach convincing KT he will give him the respect he deserves, and play him based on him being the best PF on the team.

 

KT would not have shown similar performance had he not been traded. In that case, the management would decide to keep EG and let KT shop for an offer sheet. KT would probably have an offer like MLE, and what do you do? Without the performance he showed wit sixers, and with our load of Taylor and EG on 4, I think we would have let him go too.
Of course, if he had stayed and performed so well, then we might be able to keep him for less than 50mil/6year and trade EG. But that was not quite likely to happen, given the role he had on this team.
Still, all these consideration has is not a factor when we consider whether keep Posey. If it makes some people happy, then let's just think trading KT freed us some money to sign Pike and AG and possible another 1 or 2 players.

 

Sorry SANE, I thought you were obsessed with keeping Posey and against signing Pike and AG. Must have got confused somehow.

 

nonetheless, he would have remained starting PF, and we arguably would have made the playoffs. Of course, saying Rudy would have recognized what Larry Brown did is pure speculation. But Kenny was the starter at the time of the trade. And EGs performance did deteriorate as the season progressed.

seems to me Rudy would have started playing KT and MoT only, or together as a 3-4 combo like KT and Van Horn. That is so eerily similar that I think Rudy understood that possibility, but was stuck worrying about Eddie's ego, and we missed the playoffs partly as a result.

 

Why is it amazing??? What did we get for trading Kenny Thomas?? NOTHING. Is that not a fact?? Isn't that exactly what ended up happening?? We had value in our hands that someone would give a $50M dollar contract to and we have nothing in return. And please don't give me no crap over getting AG and EP because we had the MLE and the 1.5M dollar veteran minimum already.

So the amazing argument is we lost a player with a $50 million dollar price tag and got NOTHING, yes NOTHING in return. I call that a BLUNDER that you can't put a on because it was an asset we had that was completely blown.

 

To me it seems clear that Rox wanted to play EG more and more all the way. Maybe that is the way it should be. maybe EG would have performed better coming off bench. I just don't think KT would have got same oppertunity by if he stayed. We had SF and Cat who had the ball 70% of the time, and then we had Yao whon we should give ball to a lot. If Rudy was healthy, we would have made the playoff, I really believe that.

 

Please tell me how you are going to keep him if some other team wants to offer him $50 mil? What is not yours is not yours. You can't "lost" something that you do not own.

 

It's a great decision solely from a pocketbook perspective (i.e. cheap). It does nothing to enhance the competitiveness of this team vis-a-vis the other teams in the division. With the exception of Yao, they have the worst front line in the West.

JP was certainly not worth the money Memphis threw at him but I would have preferred seeing him in JVG's system where he would have flourished. I've seen AG break down over the past 2 seasons here in Dallas. He's the 10th player on your bench. EP is, shall we say, "defensively challenged". Both players come with deficiencies that the Rockets will be hard pressed to cover and they already have enough of those to deal with.

This is not what I'd call a step forward - it's more like a step sideways.

 

These are way bigger factors in gauging our improvement over last year, which I think will be significant.

I agree with everything Sane's posted re: the smart assembly of role players. I'll take AG and EP (for what they bring to THIS team) over Posey any day of the week (and I really like Posey), even at matched salaries.

I'd love to have a backup PG so we can bench Moochie forever or waive him and I'd love to have just one strong 4, but there's no doubt in my mind we've got a better team than last year.

 

I think you've got that the wrong way around.

JVG << Pat Riley < RT. 'nuff said.

 

You can make up any scenario you want to make excuses for the organization but the simple truth is they gave up on a talent, he's no longer here and at this very moment in time they have absolutely nothing to show for it. It would have been much easier to get a sign and trade situation from KT who possibly would have had some loyalty for the Rox than obviously Posey did.

Did the Rox organization not realize last year when they made the trade that the talent at hand would possibly get the MLE exception for the next contract year. Were they that hoodwinked into not knowing these guys were capable of getting decent contract offers. If that's true are you saying the Rox organization is incapable of recognizing talent at hand and are giving away guys that other people are willing to pay but are capable of giving out stupid contracts to other players such as Maloney, Moochie, Cato and MoT who they can't get rid of.

And that doesn't even begin to explain their hopefully not futile attempt to make EddieG a usable power forward. I truly hope this guy turns into something because all I've seen so far is a 6'10 stiff who doesn't rebound well, doesn't have a post up game to speak of and likes to throw up line drive bricks from 3 point land. What's so bad about that is this will likely be Eggie's last year to have any trade value at all. But with this teams mindset they'll probably sign him up for $50M.

You can still be a big time fan but admit they made a BIG BOO BOO.

 

Look, if KT had not been traded, he wouldn't be so hot now, and you wouldn't be saying what a talent he is. And he would have got a MLE offer somewhere, and would you match it or not? I guess we won't and he would have been let go. Now, you say we can sign and trade. So you give out a MLE level contract to KT, change for a couple of players. Guess what, we got a couple of players now and we gave out less than MLE. What is the difference? It is pretty clear to me that we were not going to sign-and-trade KT or Posey and still use the full MLE and vet minimum. So however you think about it, you get into one of the senarios:

1) kept KT, offered him same money as MLE, and not to use the real MLE.
2) kept KT, offer him same money as MLE, sign-and-trade to get a couple of players, and not to use the real MLE.
3) traded KT, kept Posey, not to use the real MLE.
or 4) traded KT, not keep Posey, and use the MLE and vet min to acqire 2-4 players that we like.

Moneywise, it is pretty much same for four senarios. Clearly, the last route, the one the management chose, seems to be the best outcome for us.

 

We can be better entering this season, IF ONE THING HAPPENS...





Trade EG and Cato to New Jersey for K MART!


They might go for it, hoping to refine EG into a bad ass, and bring him closer to home.

We WOULD DEFINITELY go for it, cause it would be a serious upgrade at the 4 spot, and hopefully, KMART could negate the likes of Tim Duncan, Garnett, Drik, etc...

Now to all of you posters out there, what do you think of this proposal????????

 

1) Eddie THE STIFF Griffin didn't deserve any playing time then or now for that matter. I really hope he develops into SOMETHING, but so far he's been a summer league all star and a bust during the regular season. He should have sat the bench and should sit the bench until he's ready to contribute in the NBA.

2) Kenny improved every year he has been in the league. He actually did well when MoT was out for the year. MoT wasn't ready to play at the beginning of last year. Griffin is still a bust until he does something. Kenny felt as do many that he should have gotten starters minutes. Nobody else in the beginning of the year deserved it more at PF. I can't say he didn't have a point

3) I agree, we still do. A.Griffin is not the answer at SF. 10-15 minute man at best. Our best bet is Rice staying healthy for the entire year and giving that old Contract Year Effort.

Listen my point is not to attack the trade itself, I actually agreed with it when it went down, KT was our best available trade bait we could afford to give up BUT you have to admit when we made the trade we expected the guy who we received in return to be back for this season. Did you not?? Was it not in the best interest of the club to trade for something you were going to keep instead of just giving KT up for NOTHING.

Rice hasn't given us 1 full year total out of the 2 years he's been here, you really can't expect much more from him at this stage of his career. Dallas can afford to give minutes to a guy like A.Griffin. They've got fire power and shooters at every position. That is not a Rox strenght. He also is not going to help spread the floor with his range. Nachbar should still be in Europe, he's a total bust. He couldn't even impress in the dang summer league. Pike is not a 3. He'll help spread the floor and he'll help in limited minutes in a 3 guard offense but he's no answer at the 3 either.

With the West getting stronger and Yao with not enough experience to cover our GIANT HOLES at the 3 and 4, I'm afraid this is going to be a step back year. CD better get ready because I think if this thing goes bad especially after they imploded to finish the season last year everyone is going to be after his head.