Rockets, at this stage, better or worse than last year?

Van Gundy > Rudy T .. nuff said

 

Kind of a confusing poll/post as it mixes up the player changes and coaching changes but I'll address it in parts.

Personally, I'd have rather spent the 2.2 extra mil (or maybe like4 extra IF lux tax is in play) for the 26 year old Posey + Hawkins (or another min player) than two undersized 3s that include a 32 year old shooting specialist and a 29 year old defensive specialist. I'd had gone with the much younger, more well rounded player & far higher potential player (Posey) even though the obligation is 2.2-4 million the next 2 years plus an extra year and a half after that. I don't think this was the wisest short term or long term way to cut 2.2 million in total team salary we could have pursued.

I would say right now we are a "net even". I'd say losing Posey and replacing him with two cheaper, more 1 dimensional, and less starting capable players pretty much negates the benifit of the new coach. I'd say an 8th seed 1st round slaughter is what we have lined ourselves up for--and we aren't really much better, it is just Utah is cooked and thus the 8th seed is probably had with a 500 record. If we are any better it is only because Yao and/or EG majorly improve and they along with SF and CM stay healthy. We havn't added any starting qualty players to help our core out much, and also took away the guy that was the closests thing to a 4th decent starter.

 

GATER- don't have one, and you wouldn't be on it if I did.

 

This is a strange thread. Interesting, though.

People seem to really quickly forget what our biggest lament was last season: inconsistent play; not playing as a team.

Now we've got Van Gundy, who for all indications is all about installing a game plan where he calls the shots and everyone knows what's expected of them and what they're supposed to be doing. That's going to be a striking improvement over last year.

Also, that tall dude we got last season is going to be back, and older. Sounds good.

So, we're already a leg up on last season. You're telling me you're really THAT broken up about letting Posey go? And he wanted THAT kind of money? Come on. The guy had a great eye for the passing lanes, and he could catch a baseball pass off the break, but he's not the kind of guy who makes or breaks your team. Not we've got two more guys, BOTH for less money than Posey combined. Two role players that aren't all that impressive to replace one role player that wasn't all that impressive.

Posey is null. We'll be better this year because of a new system, new coaches, new digs, and Yao Ming.

 

Couldn't agree more. You know what this reminds me of? How at Oscar time, the only movies that people remember are the ones released in late December, just in time to qualify for the Academy. Films that are released in the spring or summer have little chance. (Even Saving Private Ryan, a summer film, lost to the fresh-in-voters-minds Shakespeare in Love).

Anyways. It's funny how timing matters. Two months ago, this board was all about Jeff Van Gundy. Remember how panicked we were when we thought he might sign with Washington? And then he picked us, and we rejoiced. We had visions of a new era. Our mouths watered at the idea of discipline, direction, and stifling defense. Remember MacBeth's excellent post about how Gundy might impact each player? I still get goosebumps thinking about the possibilities. True, there were skeptics, and there still are, but for the most part we felt like signing Van Gundy was a bold step forward.

And then there's no news for a month. So the natural inclination is to think: "Arrrghhh!!!! Why aren't we improving our team? We're doing nothing!" But we did. We already improved our team. We forgot about Saving Private Ryan.

Given the choice of Posey + Dunleavy vs. No Posey + Gundy, I'd take Gundy every time. (Remember, our team came dangerously close to signing melba toast).

I've said this before, and I'll likely say it again:

Posey is a sidebar. A footnote. Van Gundy is the headline.

 

I agree with this. But I'd rather have JVG, Posey & Pike or even JVG, JP & Hawkins or Tmo if forced to over JVG, Pike and AG. As it stands now there is no way JVG is going to coach our collection of forwards to be anything but the worst group in the league. JVG, Yao, SF, EG, & Cat--they all provide a lot of hope, sure, but losing our 4th best player who is also young and in our weakest position is going to cost you a few games next year, maybe quite a few. Will it make the difference between making the playoffs or not???--probably not, with Utah gone we would have to fall apart (less than 500) to not make the 8th spot, but I could very well believe Posey could make the difference between the 8th spot and the 5th/6th spot, and the difference between a 1st round sweep (or close to it) that leads people (or the team) blaming Yao or Steve versus a 1st round probable loss but character building dogfight. Add in the fact Posey was 26--better than any players younger than him save Yao and could have been a long term fixture at the 3--losing him doesn't strengthen our position in the short term nor long term IMO.

Is Posey a savior or major impact player for most teams, of course not, would he make some difference short term and long term and do we leave ourselves with a much weaker group of forwards without him--certainly.

 

In case you forgot that tall dude you speak of is wasting away in China and will be late for training camp AGAIN. Just what he needs a new head coach with a new system and a big man coach and he's going to show up late AGAIN.

What annoys me about losing Posey is not necessarily losing Posey but getting absolutely NOTHING for Kenny Thomas, what a wasted trade that turned out to be. Just what I wanted to see when we got the #1 pick last year........ no playoffs last year, an 8th seed maybe this year and not because they'll earn it but because Utah will suck and they'll back in.

I've been a Rockets fan since they drafted Calvin Murphy and I can't remember being this pessimistic about the team since they traded Moses.

 

I wouldn't say Yao is "wasting away." I, too, wish he could come back sooner and get on board as quickly as possible with Van Gundy and Ewing, but we knew how it was goingto be going in. He had the national team committement, and it was either late Yao or no Yao; I don't think his late arrival is on par with losing Moses Malone.

Getting "nothing" for Kenny is just how it goes. Even if he hadn't have swapped him for Posey we'd still be too poor to pay him next season and we'd still be making the best with the small acquisitions we can get this offseason.

If your beef is with Les' luxury tax reservations, well, tough t*tties for all of us. That ain't changin'.

But we didn't just lose Moses Friggin' Malone here. We ARE going to be better. I've already stated why.

 

You're right. The 2 to 3 days that Yao is going to miss will cost us the season. Wake me up October 2004.

I don't mean to single you out here, but I freaking HATE this argument. There's nothing that can be done about this situation, so why whine? I'm sure lots of teams would LOVE to take Yao off our hands and glady accept the China situation in return.

We knew about these types of risks when we drafted him. Anybody that still wants Jay Williams instead is more than welcome to trade for him, as soon is the poor guy can pass a physical.

 

is this decision independent of Yao's improvement, and the effect of JVG on the defense and decision making of Steve and Cat???

 

You can't ask if we're better this year or not and only include those two options in the poll, there's lots of other factors that make us better. Posey is a good player, but he's gettin OVERrated since Memphis signed him to the offer sheet. Another year has gone by for the Rockets to gel together, better coach, more experience for young guys especially Yao - he'll be so much better now that he's not a rookie.

 

I didn't say losing Posey was the equivalent of losing Moses, what I did say was I was pessimistic about what the Rox are or are not doing.

If you think Yao is improving anything while in China I'm afraid you're badly mistaken, yes I'd rather have Yao on the team than J.Williams (who wouldn't) but I'd also like to see Yao with some coaching from the Rox side of things than the bozo in China. Remember him (can't think of his name) the so called coach of China's national team didn't have a clue that Yao might be the best guy on the team and to run the team thru him, he had them in a guard oriented offense. Do you remember?? Even the rookies on this site were going what the hell was he doing. Even Rudy was doing everything possible to not say what a bimbo he was.

He's certainly not going to build up stamina running with that team. He needs to learn the AMERICAN GAME such as the one played in the NBA not some godawful Asian tournament that wouldn't look good against our developmental players. Wouldn't it be nice to see JVG and Ewing working with Yao at Fonde rather than doing what he's doing in China??

How many times have you heard that they can't practice during the season because of the schedule, so what developmental process is going on that makes you think he's gonna just come out of China and blow away the competition in the NBA without working with NBA coaches and especially JVG. How in the world is JVG going to run his offense thru Yao if Yao ain't around.

Are you that naive that the Rocket veterans are going to just lay down and let Yao take over when he more than anyone won't know the plays. Another example is how many times did we hear how the Rockets of Olajuwon era had to practice to perfect getting the ball down low to him. This is the time to be perfecting that play or role. He still has a long ways to go in getting himself position down low, you can't run a play down low to him if he's getting pushed to the top of the key because he doesn't know how and hasn't been properly trained in the tricks of the NBA.

You can fool yourself all you want but until he takes a full offseason in Houston to refine his skills he isn't going to dominate anything, he'll be his inconsistent self looking like a giant killer one night and a complete bust who's totally exhausted the next just like last year.

 

Yao would learn all of this in the 3 or 4 days he'll miss?

Hey, we all agree it'd be better for the Rockets if Yao was in Houston right now, but do you really think that he's not in constant contact with H-town? I'm confident Yao is doing what he knows needs to happen this offseason to be ready for next season. He's been filled in thoroughly on the weight training he needs to do and he's been doing it. As for the basketball training, you really think Amare is out playing basketball every day this summer? But we digress.

I agree the Yao situation flat out sucks. But I don't think it will cost us the season. I feel he'll know how to pace himself after last season. He'll have to, or he won't make it anywhere in the NBA as a superstar. What I don't agree with is your belief that this team is currently in a hole comparable to when we lost Moses Malone. All we've lost since last year was Rudy/Mean, which have been swapped out with guys who seem to have answers for our biggest weakness last season, and Posey, a guy whose last season was defined by a few steals and a lot of bricks. He's now been replaced as best we could afford.

Ideal? Hardly. We still have issues at the forward positions that are, oh, let's say 'unproven.' But I don't see Posey as being a great answer to those problems. The guy simply isn't worth $6 mil to a team in this financial condition. I'd rather see him on the court this season than the two new guys, but that's mostly because I already know what Posey can do.

Right now all we can do is trust that Van Gundy has a vision for the team, and that these shorter forwards that were available on the cheap figure into what he wants to do. Which is what I feel will make us better this year: Vision and direction, not retaining the 4th option on a team that didn't make the playoffs last year.

Let's not lose sight of what we've gained just because we involuntarily had to let one piece go. Van Gundy won't be an overnight sensation, but he's what the team needs. Yao won't be a new man overnight, either, but he'll get to where he needs to be. I'll bet he's not envying Lebron right now.

 

RIET, Desert Scar, SANE, etc. The fans have spoken. Overwhelmingly, we prefer signing Pike and AG over keeping Posey. You should walk out of the shadow of your obsession with Posey.

 

Yao improved and developed during the past years under the help of those chinese "bozo". Look at EG, Tmo, or any young player on Rox team, who has had similar improvement under the help of Rox coaches? Don't be so biased against his being in China?

 

agree totally. I know this is hindsight/second guessing, but it was as if we plugged a hole temporarily for just last season. Was there any way we could have gotten longer term value by trading for help somewhere else such as PG? Admittedly, I am a part-time visitor here so I don't know enough to answer my own question

was there anyone else avail at the right price contract-wise who was signed to a longer term contract? could/should CD have thought longer-term on the KT trade?

 

And most of the voting Southerners wanted to secede the union and felt nothing was wrong with slavery. Bully for them. (point being I don’t base my opinions on the whims of other fans)

Since Posey is gone I won't care to bring it up unless provoked by asinine or overblown comments about the situation (AD is better at any cost than Posey, good riddance of Posey--we are a better team for it, Posey sucks Beal street gets old, hope you enjoy you fat checks for losing, etc.).For the most part I'll let it go--it is over--I hope those of all sides on this debate move to other more forward thinking things now.

To be honest though for me to have any optimism we can make a good showing in the playoffs and progress much as a team relative to last year honestly I do hope a trade is in the work to shore up either the 3 or 4 spots. I can see a mile away the dearth of talent/skill/length/athleticism (not a lack of effort mind you) in our forwards is going to lead us to lose a lot of games where Yao, SF & CM don't deserve to be on the losing side based on their individual efforts/contributions. My hunch is this is going to be very frustrating to fans/our players, just like early last year when we began to see how much damage we could really do if our core had more quality supporting players only to see the team wear down and tail off.

 

We may disagree on whether keeping Posey is the way to go, but we all know 3 and 4 are our weakest links. I can see the management is making effort, and we shouldn't expect huge improvement soon, given the bad and untradable contracts we have. I am prepared to be frustrated again next year, but I think this is the best way to go in the long run.

 

It is amazing that people keep using this argument. No matter what we do, we are not going to offer KT $50 mil over 6 years. So he will be let go no matter what.