Rockets agree deal with rookie center/forward Dorsey

Completely true, but I believe what pippendagimp said - it was all a part of the Landry negotiations.

The major reason I posted originally was because so many people around here have been bashing Landry and pretending Dorsey's game was as big as his mouth.

On a sidenote I'm beginning to love Morey for his GM-speak as much as I used to criticize JVG's coach-speak. The NBA is a big business and I do have a tendency not to take quotes from management literally.

 

NIKEstrad and BimuThug,

OK, I found the part of the CBA that discusses that. It's new. Larry Coon is a little vague and is his nature in the FAQ (on purpose). The actual text that Larry Coon paraphrases does not mention "draft picks" is refers specifically to players signed using the Minimum Player Salary Exception who have 0 or 1 Year of Service.

see this:

So this refers ONLY to players signed using the Minimum Player Salary exception (MPSE). When the CBA capitalizes text, it is using a CBA definition. Thus, the clause is not just a dollar amount or a yr in service thing, it is referring to the use of an exception. All MPSE players between 0 and 2yrs of service count the same towards the Luxury Tax, thus preventing teams from favoring 0 to 1 yr player over 2yr.

wrt to Dorsey: this does not apply. He was signed using the MLE not the MPSE. Dorsey will count against the LT at the amount he was signed.

 

I don't understand everything you are saying but it seems that you are mistaken on salary. The 4 year total for the vets minimum by my calculations is less than 3 mil. Which means Dorsey didn't sign for the minimum and making this point mute. Secondly you cannot make a minimum salary offer for more than 2 years and finally I can assure Dorsey would not sign a 4 year deal with team options for the 3rd and 4th year when all he was being offered was the minimum. There is absolutely no incentive for him to do so. What he got was a low first round deal in return some perks for the Rockets if he should bust out. Still I think it was a good deal for the Rockets. They probably overpaid for him a bit but they don't have to worry at all about him pulling a landry on us for 4 years. And even then we have his bird rights. And if he sucks it cost us less than 2 mil and he is cut.

 

Thanks, heypartner. I realize that signing Dorsey using a portion of the MLE does not equate to signing him for the "Minimum Salary". My original points were that (1) Dorsey would likely have counted towards the luxury tax at a greater amount than the rookie minimum because of the salary cap rules and (2) Dorsey's contract may have been structured to pay his actual salary at the same level as would have been "taxable" had he signed for the minimum. NIKEstrad's quote from Larry Coon, however, may have shot a hole through my first point, though.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but isn't the veteran minimum salary 1 million? Over 4 years, that would be 4 million, not less than 3 mil.

 

I arrived at my figure (~$3,361,760) by adding together the two-year veteran minimum salary amounts for each of the next 4 years. Those figures are $797,581 for 2008-09, $825,497 for 2009-10, $854,389 for 2010-11, and $884,293 for 2011-12. These figures are pre-set under the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

And it's "moot", by the way.

Actually, you CAN make an offer worth the minimum salary for more than 2 years if you use a portion of the MLE equal to the exact figure that is the minimum player salary for a given player. What you may be thinking of is the Minimum Player Salary Exception. If so, then you are correct. That exception cannot be for more than 2 years. But that was not what I was talking about.

Dorsey was likely willing to sign a 4-year deal with team options on Years 3 and 4 because the Rockets offered him both (a) an increased starting salary over the rookie minimum and (b) more guaranteed money in Years 1 and 2 than most rookie contracts. Assuming that Year 2 is fully guaranteed, he could turn out to be the worst player in NBA history and still walk away with $1.6 million. Not too shabby for Joey.

 

I would say Larry Coon is being too vague there. The CBA text of what he is paraphrasing is quoted in my last post. It refers specifically and only to the luxury tax hit of 0-1yr players signed for the Minimum Player Salary; that is, they all count the same as a 2yr Vet Minimum player.

Larry makes it sound like all players signed for less than the 2yr Vet Minimum count the same. It's only 0-1 Year of Service players. And it's only players signed to the league minimum for the years of service.

I'm not disagreeing with Larry, but I know he is purposely vague often--to make the FAQ easier to read.

That's not what the actual CBA text says. The clause does not say that signing a 0-2yr player to an MLE (or via caproom) for more than the Minimum Salary but less than the 2yr Vet Minimum counts the same as a 2yr Min. It doesn't say that.

 

hp,

A 2+ year vet by definition can't be signed for less than the 2 year vet minimum.

I agree though -- the language makes it sound like a team can theoretically use its MLE to sign a 0-1 year player to the league minimum, and he would count against the cap at that salary rather than the 2 year vet minimum salary.

I think there's a point Bima was getting at that's right -- the difference in luxury tax impact for Dorsey at the salary on this contract (this year) versus the impact if Dorsey had been signed using the Minimum Player Salary Exception (MPSE) (which most 2nd rounders take, not a piece of the MLE like Dorsey) can be calculated as the difference in his first year salary and the salary of 2 year vet signed with MPSE. And the difference is minimal

To quantify it, a 4 year, 3.5m contract with 8% raises (non-compounded), starts at $781,250. This is the amount Dorsey will hit against the cap this year. Interestingly, the 2 year vet minimum in 2008-2009 is $797,581. This is the amount any 0, 1, or 2 year vet would count against the cap if signed using the MPSE.

This would mean Dorsey actually counts LESS against the cap for luxury tax calculation purposes than a free agent rookie signed using the MPSE.

 

Okay I read Nikestrads post which makes sense and I stand corrected. I will say the savings is almost insignificant thus making your point MUTE.

 

According to AP, Houston signed Marcus Cambell (C) and Von Wafer (G). Who are these guys, and what do we want with them?

Link

 

just to fill in bodies.

 

Von Wafer is an interesting prospect. Very speedy, athletic, big guard.

Von Wafer always stands out in Summer League, D-League, or training camp. But in regular seasons, he couldnt really earn too much playtime. It seems Von Wafer doesnt know too much about NBA games except for his outstanding natural talents. I hope after all these years, Von Wafer has learned enough about NBA games to stay in NBA.

 

yes I know. But I was referring to Bima's quote

<i>The league counts all minimum salary players (whether it's a rookie or a 17-year vet like Mutombo) against the luxury tax at the minimum salary for a two-year veteran.</i>

I was also trying the make the point that "drafted" vs "free agent" is not the issue as Larry says. It's signing to the MPS.

And yes, I could have clarified Larry Coon's comment even further about salaries under the 2yr min. there is a gap between the 0-1yr Min Salary and the 2yr Min Salary where a player can be signed using caproom or an MLE. But that's pretty easy to see in the actual CBA text, no? So yes, the gap is there for Dorsey could count less validating BimaThug's point about Dorsey counting less that someone who is paid the minimum, although he backed into that fact, while making an incorrect distinction between 2nd Rounders and undrafted rookies.

 

dorsey will be a force as soon as he gets some NBA minutes in. i loved his game in college - especially for a tissue paper toughness team like the rockets. he's nasty and gritty and has that thuggish arrogance that Karl Malone used to intimidate people with. i think with time you'll love his game too.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have Dorsey, but there has been some ridiculous crud thrown around here and especially at Landry's expense, and it irritated me more than anything here ever has.

 

I think you pretty much nailed it right there.

Also, heypartner is correct that we all may have "backed in" to the determination that Dorsey's salary may actually count slightly LESS against the luxury tax than if he had signed a deal using the standard Minimum Player Salary Exception that most secound rounders sign for. That was not part of my initial post, though.

Bottom line: No one should worry too much about Dorsey getting "above the rookie minimum" or getting "4 years, $3.5M", since the luxury tax ramifications are either nonexistent or maybe even better with his contract.

 

If he doesn't work out, we can bring in his brother Vanilla Wafer.

 

great we got a backup biggie

 

At least he'd play well with (DJ) Strawberry.

 

I'm glad this was finally taken care of. Dorsey is a beast and will work his way into the rotation. Now the Rox just need to sign Deke or some other big man.