Rockets aggressively pursuing Chris Paul

I agree about leadership and top tier talent. I just struggle to accept that Harden and Paul can coexist. This isn't like sharing the ball with Airemy Lin or Chandler Portions since Harden would have to learn to really play off the ball. Harden rarely does a ton of movement off the ball, so thats what concerns me. I definitely know that he is a very willing player to let Paul become the full time PG of this team, but will Harden become less effective playing with a player like Paul? At the end of the day, a great player is a great player and you don't turn them down if they do want to play with you, but for me fit will continue to be a question if it does happen.

 

i don't know if this is related, but a lot of my concern about the CP3 and JH pairing comes from how terrible the ty lawson experience was.

However, when I think back, the first few games were a disaster but Harden genuinely tried to let lawson play the point. It was not until about game 11 that McHale was fired and the team decided that the experiment was a failure. It was at that point that Harden took over the offense again - by default.

My questions are: was Ty Lawson fundamentally bad at that point, and thus the reason why the experiment failed? Or, was Harden unable to share the offense and thus the experiment was doomed to fail from the get go?

I know that this is glossing over the many other problems that were going on that season, but in a vacuum, these questions matter. I bet the coaches and front office believes that Ty Lawson was most of the problem and that is why they think the CP3 + JH will work

 

i've addressed this in the woj:cp3 thread. if you guys are actually questioning harden's willingness and effectiveness next to a cp3 then he has really no interest in winning at the end of the day.

 

Does anyone have access to the latest ESPN Chis Paul article that seems to be Rockets focused?

If so, could someone summarize the findings?

 

i'm really questioning it...

... and it doesn't mean I'm questioning whether Harden wants to win or not.

A zebra is a zebra. Doesn't matter how hard it might want to be a stripe-less horse. Is that Harden? Can he really change and adapt?

I don't know if he can. I'm sure he'll want to, if he thinks it means him still being dominant on a championship team. I just don't know if he actually can.

And to the extent he can... is he still as effective? A JH running around off picks isn't going to be as effective. It's not his strengths.

As many others have said, if for whatever reason CP3 is the star you target because you feel best about being able to get him for whatever reason, then you have to do it. CP3 is that enigma of a player that statistically is just amazing. One of the most amazing PGs of all time. Plays both sides of the all. Amazing playmaker. Better scorer than the #s point out. All nba defense. But can't take a team past the 2nd round. Doesn't seem to form the best relationship with teammates. Overdribbles. Etc. If you can get him, get him and see what works and you have him or JH to trade if it doesn't work great.

But when I complain about the lack of "strategy" in the Rockets front office, it's stuff like this. The retort is usually that the strategy is "get star players together"... well, yes, duh. But there has to be more to the strategy beyond that. Something that FAs can look at and say I see exactly what they're trying to do, I see the system, I see where I fit in, etc. so that star players can say that's the location where we can team up and win.

Interestingly... despite last year's offseason signings kind of falling into their lap (eg. thank god Kent Bazemore didn't sign with us, lol)... they seemed to have a direction. Offense, offense, offense, space and pace, stretch 4s, small balls, etc. I kind of think this started going off a bit at the trade deadline. DM got great value in trading Brewer and a late first for a 6th man of the year candidate. But it was a guy that... well, overdribbles, isn't a guy that moves the ball, doesn't move off the ball.. Lou Williams. I think despite Lou having some great games, it was to the detriment of the chemistry of the team and the chemistry of the bench. Even though Lou delivered in round 1, I didn't feel like the bench as a whole got better after he was acquired. And of course he SUCKED against the Spurs. For an MDA offense, I think it hampered ball movement. Now, in the offseason, CP3 being your #1 target?? What's the PLAN?? Move Harden back to the 2??

I mean, again, if CP3 wants to come, then let him come. But "fit" wise, how is CP3 a better fit than Paul Millsap? Not that they can afford it, but wouldn't replacing Anderson/Lou with Millsap and a different Clipper, JJ Reddick, make a LOT more sense??

Heck, forget Millsap, would Reddick alone make a lot more sense?? Guy is one of the best 3 point shooters in history... but has never shot more than 6 threes a game (his buddy Ryno has shot 6.9 per game or higher 4 seasons, including his 7 last year with the Rockets). And Reddick plays defense (well, tries and isn't a zero) and moves without the ball and doesn't have to dominate the ball.

The Rockets love to shoot threes. Yet again weren't amazing at it. 15th in the league % wise.

It's just all very confusing.

 

Turning down CP3 because of Lawson's inability to lay off the booze and stay in shape would be like rejecting Anthony Davis because Dwight wouldn't run the pick and roll.

 

Harden doesn't have to become Klay or Ray Allen.

Go back and watch some of the Team USA games with James and Kyrie.

Or go watch some of the Cavs games with LeBron and Kyrie.

A scorer can be effective without the ball just as a spacer/diversion without having to run off a bunch of screens.

 

Remember how effiecent. Harden was in OKC? When he didn't have all of the ball handling responsibilities? Harden can score
Effectiently. He's forced to take ***** here. Cp3 with alieviate those responsibilities and harden can focus on scoring.

 

Well said.

 

The Thunder were actualy more efficient when they were playing Westbrook and Harden...which on paper should be worse of a fit than Durant and Westbrook or Harden and Durant so...

 

As to how having both Harden & Chris Paul would work... I'm seeing references to Harden/Westbrook and Harden/Lawson. I don't think we can compare it to anything we've seen. MDA probably has some quirky (Harden-to-point-guard level) idea to present in a couple of days.

I have no clue what he and Morey are thinking, but they definitely have something unique in mind.

Random ideas... maybe every defensive rebound results in an immediate CP3 fast break, then evolves into a Harden-led secondary break that is a quick PnR or attack option. If that breaks down, back to CP3 for more probing. Every inbound (after the make) goes to Harden to initiate the offense. The defense will be set, Harden can collapse that defense, disrupt, score, or find the 3 or dump to Paul to apply even more pressure to an already decaying defense.

When you have two guys that can create major holes in the defense good things can happen. I commend the coaching staff for accepting the difficult challenge of finding a way to utilize the two, rather than shying away from the idea. With that said, I'm not sure I've ever seen it done at the NBA level. Only college.

 

Where's the data on this?? I'm not saying it didn't happen... just want to see the data.

I feel like a lot of people say "remember Harden on OKC".... and don't actually remember themselves. I remember a guy who was basically the same guy we have here, with lower usage and volume. His 66% TS% his last year in OKC was his highest, but on the whole he's been just as efficient a scorer here as he was in OKC. He maybe moved a "little" more in OKC than he has here, but not a ton. He had ballhandling responsibilities when he came in the game in OKC as much as he didn't... and it was as much about getting Westbrook off ball as Harden.

 

so we agree on if cp3 is willing to come here we do it. we can leave that alone

bc fit wise we've seen guys year after year, what it looks like for these guys to play next to a harden and it caps out at a 1st or 2nd round exit. how many more years of these just "good" players are we going to have shuffle through just to basically have that same ceiling in the end. Guys that are basically only effective playing off of harden. We do it because we want to remain a very good team in the NBA and missed out on some guys we've been chasing. thankfully like you said some have worked out in our favor. Houston should be past the days of building a decent playoff team. they are one with harden surrounded with group of good/solid specialist players. Now it's giving yourself a chance to beat the 2-3 championship teams in the league and unfortunately it takes next level talent of a cp3/PG/hayward type to get there based on the personnel of these other teams. adding other guys such as a reddick or millsap doesn't open that ceiling enough as their impact on the game isn't to the level of elite talent. honestly i thought what the rockets had this year was enough to take out the spurs this year finally. we saw flashes but the overall needs to beat them from top to bottom wasn't enough. they couldn't take adv of the opportunity and clearly showed the flaws in that series

If people are fine with this same exact blueprint the rockets have had for the last couple of years, bringing in guys that must rely on harden to be effective and just be a good team throughout the year then they'll need to realize the same results to be yielded. You won't be taking the next step into the true elite tier while continuing just to add solid players.

 

Harden + Paul may not work. But same goes with any possible pairings, including the status quo which saw the team lose in the 2nd round.

With GSW around, most combinations of players will not work to beat them anyway.

 

if i were a shooter, i would be chomping at the bit to be on the team with harden AND paul.

 

I see this viewpoint for sure... but then the obvious retort regarding CP3 is he's never gotten out of the 2nd round. That despite playing with 2 other all-stars!!!

Millsap is an all-star who is a better fit.
Hayward is an all-star who is a better fit.

 

It's here somewhere lol, i already said this in another thread a couple of months ago because i read it here somewhere but i can't really remember where unfortunately :/

 

sorry but i don't consider DJ a real all star. i think that's a complete joke that he's been awarded that title. cp3 has consistently lead his teams to winning seasons and playoff appearances. he impacts winning positively to me without a doubt.

it's the same lines why harden has really never gotten out of the 2nd round. he's gotten out of it one time with his own team and it's been well addressed what it took for that to happened. that's not nearly enough to put him in a completely different category than a cp3. before that it was 1st round exits and disappointing season within.

 

James Harden and Chris Paul are both first ballot Hall of Famers and top 5 all time at their positions... both are still in their primes as well.

Chris Paul and James Harden would be the best backcourt in the NBA and adding Paul would greatly improve the Rockets.

If the Rockets are able to get Paul, it is a no brainer.

Adding Paul alone doesn't beat a healthy Warriors team in a 7 game series, but possibly makes it a 6-7 game series. Paul has never played with anyone as remotely good as Harden.

Having said that, I simply cannot see Paul turning down the type of money the Clippers can guarantee him.