good...that means your done, right. Because I don't want to hear you explain how Iverson is better than Torres just because he leads the NBA is steals. The fast guards can cheat and play passing lanes when they have a big (awesome) front line behind them. nuff said...
Oh darn I thought I was the first to start a thread about Juan Dixon in the College/Draft area. I agree with you Verse--despite his weaknesses and questions about him being a tweener I cannot imagine the way Juan has consistently played against top flight defenses that he would be available to us in the first round. IMO this guy is just too exceptional in the things he does well (spotting up, shooting on the move, leadership, knowing the game, playing passing lanes) to not make up for his major question marks (strength, size for a 2) and his average areas (lateral quickness, leaping, ball handling). And yes, I think we would be fools to not draft him in the 2nd round if we had the chance. IMO Moochie and Torres would both quickley lose minutes to him. I just don't see it happening though, with flexible teams like the Lakers, Kings, Spurs, Wolves, and Blazers picking late in the first round even if he doesn't go by mid first round I do not see him moving to the 2nd. I see him as a no-brainer for the Lakers actually, because they don't need a traditional 1 with their inside out offense and Kobe's ball handling. If I were them I do what I need to to get Juan Dixon.
this would be an argument of do you take the best player available or do you fill a need? if dixon falls to the second round i'm sure that he would be the best player available but he doesn't fit our needs at all becuase our backcourt is already deep. rember when oscar got regular playing time and everyone raved on his defense? he's a big body at the two and dixon can't match that. steals does not always translate to good defense, steve had almost 2 spg. last year yet we can all agree he's no defensive monster. we need to draft more for what we need.
No. No. No. We don't need Juan Dixon even if he is a good college level player. IMO, we need to draft Jeri Welsch, a 6-6 point guard to press Mooch and T-Brown. If Welsch makes the team, he can also fill in a SG or even SF. He's reputedly a solid defender and a great shot.
<b>crispee (heypartner)</b>: Feel better? Your criticisms of Dixon's place on the Rockets are fair. However, I think of him as being more of a PG than a SG in the pros, so the question is this: does he offer us more than Mooch or Tierre-- not can he beat out Torres? I know Mooch is tied-up in a long-term deal but there have been rumors of his being included in all kinds of deals. He never played the point at MD because in his time there it was manned by, first, Francis and, second, Blake. Francis was The Man and Blake could ONLY play PG-- plus he has exceptional court vision. His ball-handling is fine... good enough for the pros. I didn't mean to curse him with my understatement. How often do you find a PG with his combination of offensive skills and defensive intensity? His offensive skills are the shooting-off-the-dribble kind of which there are very few practicioners. PLUS I JUST LIKE THE KID !!!!!!! He's exceptional in many ways. Where's FredTerp? Back me up....
I agree with you. He doesn't have the physical dimensions, but he has a lot of game. It always surprises me when people like him, or Eddie House (37th pick), don't have favorable draft standings. Great college players with a ton of athletic ability who are tweeners - may not be the next star of the league, but decent backup for sure. Not that there might not be someone better out there as enhebay says, but with a second round pick, if he's the best on the board then I don't see why we wouldnt take him.
I wasn't referring to your statement, because you are not the only one who questioned his ballhandling skills. nbadraft.com says "<i>Small and has no point guard skills. Lack of size and strength will hurt him the most defensively. </i>" This thread seems like a "Give Dixon his due" thread, or "I want the Tourny MVP" despite him being 24 yrs old. This thread is really about you being the Rockets GM. Do you guys really want this smart, shooting shrimp of a 152lb nothing, who won't be able to play defense in the NBA to backup Mobley. JayZ, aren't you a champion of defense. Would you really trade Oscar Torres for Eddie House? Like this team really needs another undersized tweener. Look at some of the big men who've gone in the 2nd Round in the last 3 drafts, some of whom can definitely help our defensive intensity off the bench: Najera Todd MacCullough Leon Woods Terence Morris Alton Ford Wang Zhi Zhi Lee Nailon I make no predictions about Dixon, but I've seen time and time again, these old senior guards with great frontcourts look spectacular in the tourny because they are eating up 20-21 yr olds with lesser frontlines. We don't need him. Take a flyer on a big man in the second round. Why not??? Don't you think we can at least find someone to rebound/defend better than Collier? (Don't start The Cat. I like Collier's offense we he hits that Wang jumper, but the Rockets are probably better suited for a defender.)
Nate McMillan would take him with the first pick overall! From the Chron: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/bk/bkn/1336088 lol!
Well the first mistake is taking what NBAdraft.net puts in it's little blurbs as being relatively true. Juan doesn't have a great handle, and for the most part that's because he's never had to work on it. He's had Blake to be the primary ballhandler. He's not at the level where I'd like to see him break down a player off the dribble consistantly, but he's close to that point. But if he needs to develop a point guard's ball handling skills I'm certain he will. He's developed every skill he's been asked to, and made them his strengths. Gary Williams told him to develop a midrange jumpshot, and right now he has the best one in the college game. You claim you'll make no predictions about Dixon, but then start talking in absolutes about what he'll do. He won't be able to play defense in the NBA. I might not want a smart, 6-3 shooting shrimp who doesn't play defense; but I would definately want Juan Dixon. His size isn't as great a liability as you make it out to be, and anything lacking in his game, I'm confident he'll work on and make it a strength.
Huh. Of course we don't need Eddie House. I was just commenting on how coming otu of colelge he wasnt ranked as highly as he should be. I'm no NBA scout, and by no means should be one, but I could have told you he would be a decent backup one day. I don't think we need Dixon, but I think that at that point in the draft its a crapshoot and if Dixon was still there you'd have to take him. I just think that Dixon will make it in this league. On a side note, that's twice you've alluded to Torres defensive abilities as a two guard. While I recognize he does have some size advantages, I don't remember seeing Torres playing great, or even good defense ever this season????
JayZ, Do you really want me to go pull dozens of posts by others raving about Oscar's defense. I think Oscar's defense is overrated...a little frantic and gets too much in people's faces, without be able to keep them in front of him a lot. But the guy is active and smart, excellent deny the ball defender. A 6'whatever shrimp is going to have trouble denying the ball and stopping Wally from backing him down. Not to mention the jumping SGs. As for the "making a bunch of absolutes." Come on: be fair. The only absolute I made is that a 6'3 (my ass) SG guard weighing 152ibs is not going to exhibit NBA defense to be warranted a positive characteristic as people said in this thread. I was responding to that comment from others. I think it is pretty absolute to say defense is likely to be his weakness in the NBA> Just call him what he can bring: a multi-dimensional shooter! Maybe he can learn PG skills...maybe. You remark that he can learn because he has responded to his coach...understand he is one of the oldest college players in the nation with a great frontline. Learning a midrange is all fine and dandy, but Mobley improves like no ones business and he'll never have PG skills. And he was instructed to be one. JayZ, you just seem to be contradicting your call for more defense and no more 3 guard ball. You do realize that if we get Dixon and his shooting translates to the NBA...all that means is we will see more 3 Guard ball. Now really, wouldn't you rather have Lee Nailon, Najera, Todd MacCullough, another shot at a TMorris with a shot, etc. You seem to be avoiding that question. Crapshoot, sure its a crapshoot....so roll the dice on defensive/rebounding intensity. Saying Oscar is better is a safe enough bet to take a flyer out on looking at a possible keeper big man. then again, if we land Ming. all bets are off. round me up all the smart shooters you can get me to circle that 7'6" passer. drool.
At age 24 he has more discipline than either of our starting guards. He is a winner. He is a thinking basketball player. He is somewhat of a risk because of his physical attributes, but his intangibles win out IMHO. He may be another Jeff Hornacek. Agreed that we have greater needs, but if we could get value for Mooch, Dixon would be a great candidate. We do need a big rebounder more than we need to replace our backup PG, but he is a guy I would like to have on the squad.
It's funny, giddyup; I was posting the exact same message a second ago. Maybe I should just say ditto. Naw, I need to repeat it: Juan Dixon's a leader, on and off the court. He has always applied himself (failing then passing his SATs with flying colors) and has succeeded despite obstacles that would crush most people. We might have to trade Mooch to get the pick we'd need for Juan Dixon (Washington needs a point guard, has cap space this year, etc.) But J.D. would be the leader that Steve is not. He might even help light a fire under Franchise. And J.D. will not fall past #20 in the draft. Last year's draft should have proven to GMs: take the experienced player.
I as big or bigger of a Juan Dixon fan as anyone on the board (i went to U of MD and am still recovering from Mondays win)...anyway, I truly believe that Juan has the one thing that you cant put on a stat sheet or a bio..and that is heart...he is so determned to succeed. I agree that he isnt a PG because he isnt an "a1" ballhandler and he is small for a SG in comparison to guys like Allen, Houston, Kobe etc but I'll take a guy like Juan Dixon on my team any day of the week. Juan Dixon may be the only guy who thinks that Juan Dixon can make it in the NBA and hopefully for us, our scouts believe him.
I think Hornecek is a very good comparison Giddyup. Dixon could also be thought of as a 6'3" version of Reggie Miller (yes I know the 4 inches is significant, but a 6'3" Reggie Miller would have found a place in the NBA). After all, Dell Curry, a 6'4" or so player terrible in all phases except a great shot and range, played an important 6 man role in the league for many years. HP, I agree Dixon isn't the best fit. I don't even think we will need to consider him based on where we will be drafting unless we get Seattle's pick via Toronto. But I think you are vastly underestimating Dixon's game. This guy is too exceptional in many phases of the game not to play meangiful minutes in the NBA IMO. We are not talking about a solid college two guard who lived off the spot up J created by solid big men (Scotty Thurman, Trajan Langdon, Thomas Hill), we are talking about a guy who could always find a way to score against fine defenses with stopping him being their #1 focus. If Tony Delk, Linsey Hunter, David Wesley and Jeff MacInnis can be marginal starters or quality bench players in the NBA, I see little reason to doubt Juan Dixon can too.
see, this is why I don't watch any college anymore. You get stuck making analysis of 24 yrs olds playing against 20-21 yrs olds and let it mean this and that and all these absolutes. I did not ever question Dixon, except his defense and whether he could be an NBA point guard...and those are legitimate worries. I have never doubted anything else. But, my god, you guys are penciling him in as wise as Hornachek and the heart and desire and shooting of Cuttino Mobley. I don't do stuff like. I know what Oscar Torres can do in the NBA. Let's start with that. You guys are flat out dismissing him. It is almost insulting to Oscar. Let's be reasonable. If Dixon shows up being as good as Tony Delk, would you pick Delk over Lee Nailon or Todd MacCullough. Hell, how about this, would you rather have Oscar and Najera, or Oscar and Dixon? What about Oscar and Lee Nailon verus Oscar and Dixon. and so on and so on. If he is a great as you all say, he'll go earlier because he is a big name. But then, the question becomes, would you use a #20 on Tony Delk or Darvin Ham. How about Dumars or Shawn Marion? And so on and so on. Quality for quality, outside of the lottery studs . . . you can't use a pick on shooting guard. Really?? You want to do that??
Nothing against Oscar, Crispee. But we never played him this year (TankCity 2002?) And how much is he worth? We were loyal to Shandon, too, and look what it landed us: Glen Rice's bad feet and worse contract. I think one or two of us did mention we wouldn't bother drafting Dixon unless we had the pick to do it, which would mean moving Moochie out. And would we do that? Dunno. So, really, this is all academic.
I don't really want you to, but I don't remember seeing them. I'll take your word for it. All I know is that when someone says Oscar Torres to me, I think athletic, Venezuelan, looks like Clyde Drexler, scorer before defender. By size alone he would be a better defender than some others, but great, or even good?? That's all I think he is. I am doing no contradicting. I dont like the 3 guard lineup and the team needs defense defense defense. But should I not take a player who should otherwise be gone because Rudy might play a 4 guard lineup next year? We will have three guards on our team at all points in the season. I can't control how Rudy plays him. I like both Torres and Moochie's attitude, but Torres hasnt shown consistent play off the bench and frankly, Moochie hasn't done anything to prove he deserved as big a contract as he got. If one is gone and Dixon is in his place next year, then so be it. If there is a Todd MacCollough type player still on the board, then go ahead and take him. All I am saying is that Juan Dixon, whether on the Rockets or any other team, would have a much much higher percentage of makign an impact on an NBA team than most other 2nd round picks - for every Todd MacCullough there are 6 or 7 busts. I do not believe our defensive problems or Rudy's decision to go with the 3 guard lineup will change as a result of our second round pick in the draft. That said, I'd try and get someone who could be an asset to the team with the highest probability.
only one point to be made WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER GUARD!! So unless he can play SF . . . .I don't want him I think Oscar got sat down so we would not have to worry about him getting signed elsewhere in the off season . . . ala Eldridge Recasner and what almost happened to Cuttinno. Rocket River
