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Robert Mueller, Former F.B.I. Director, Is Named Special Counsel for Russia Investigation

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by KingCheetah, May 17, 2017.

  1. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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  2. Nook

    Nook Member

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    "I didn't know it was illegal, I do it all the time in business. Look, this is stupid. We can work it out. This isn't what the American people want. I just did what my attorney told me. I didn't know he was a scumbag. The American people are being railroaded here." - Donald Trump in the next several months during a heavily edited and air brushed prime time statement to Sean Hannity
     
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  3. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    Karen McDougal is a dime.
     
  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Stephen Hayes, editor in chief of the Weekly Standard, debating with the intellectually and ethically overmatched matt schlapp

     
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  5. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Reacting to the trump defense that manafort was not found guilty of all counts...

     
  6. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Sometimes a little humor makes the whole thing easier to take...

     
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  7. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Lots of respect for convicted felons, BIGLY.
     
  8. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I heard a credible argument that Trump can say the p*rn payments are not campaign finance violations. The one I've heard earlier -- he's paying so his wife doesn't find out -- doesn't hold much water for me. The argument goes that it is a business expense because much of Trump's value is in the goodwill of his name. Franchisers pay for the use of his name. So sex scandals reduce the value of that name, making hush money a legitimate business expense. Not bad. Of course, it doesn't do much to explain the timing of the agreement, a decade after the fact, shortly before the election, and with testimony (and maybe evidence) that the nearness of the election was a catalyst for the transaction.

    That said, I don't want an impeachment based on paying off p*rn stars to not talk about extra-marital affairs. I don't want one based on perjury or obstruction of justice either. Not that these things aren't wrong, because they are. I'd like them prosecuted after he leaves office. But, if you set the bar for impeachment that low, there will be payback later, and I don't want to be trapped in a vicious circle of revenge impeachments. If there is a case to be made for conspiring with foreign powers to manipulate or undermine the election, I'm comfortable that clears a high bar and can easily be called a high crime. And if you are proceeding with a real high crime, you can tack on the lesser charges of obstruction and perjury and campaign finance violations to paint a complete picture for the impeachment trial. You just need the headliner.
     
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  9. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    That bar has already been set. We shouldn't lower the bar further just because he's a horrible human being. His supporters already do that and that's why we're here now.
     
  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    I am guessing you opposed the impeachment of Bill Clinton, since his high crime was lying under oath about having the affair with the intern.

    But curious if you thought the Nixon impeachment the standard you are describing for trump?
     
  11. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Long as they stand for the flag they egregiously defraud, we're all good.
     
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  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I was a dumb college kid when Clinton was impeached (but I favored impeachment at the time, probably to spite my peers), and not even a twinkle in my father's eye when Nixon resigned. But, obviously the Trump saga makes people reconsider the past. Today, I think the perjury and obstruction charges against Bill Clinton, while serious, did not rise to a high crime. The Special Counsel investigation was justified and I'm glad Bill was caught and forced to tell the truth in the end, I'm glad he lost his law license, and I'm glad Paula Jones won her settlement. I'd have been happy to see him indicted. But, it's too politically disruptive to remove a president that you'd do it over that kind of stuff.

    As for Nixon, I don't know if he defines a standard because it was not a bubble case like Clinton. He didn't really test the minimum threshold because he was really safely within the high crime band.
     
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  13. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    This has to be the worst post you've ever made. The idea that the manner in which the government has prosecuted criminal organizations for decades is now a problem because it relates to Trump is just particularly incredible. The litany of now convicted people very closely involved with Trump and his organization is outrageous. If you had any standards you'd be outraged.

    Furthermore, Republicans control government. They can investigate whoever the hell they want. So they should do it or stop dragging it out any time they need to deflect from their own crimes.
     
  14. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  15. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    l did not know that.

     
  17. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Yes, apparently we cannot be concerned about voter disenfranchisement techniques unless we're upset that felons can't vote. o_O
     
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  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    I guess the Georgia toilet problem isn't on the radar then
     
  19. mdrowe00

    mdrowe00 Member

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    ...bar's really not set low for impeachment, JuanValdez. It's been this low for at least the last twenty years.

    ...and this might be why, despite so much of a clamor from so many corners to the contrary...

    ...that the Special Prosecutor has gone about his business in this manner, with respect to disclosing information, securing indictments, and now, convicting criminal actions among the president's campaign staff.

    ...We mused a little while ago about the trepidation Robert Mueller might be facing in what will now most certainly be an inevitability...indicting the office-holder of the Presidency of the United States, and how such a scenario might play itself out.

    I don't think for one minute, personally, that Robert Mueller (or anyone else on his prosecutorial team) is at all satisfied with upending the Donald's laundry hamper full of dirty underpants. Rudy Guliani could have done that all by his lonesome, and came close on more than a few occasions.

    Not to say or suggest that what has transpired here is in any way insignificant or trivial (far from it), but the real land mine in all of this is, again, legislation on the books running concurrent and even in some cases perpendicular to campaign finance laws and Constitutional precedent. As it stands right now, the legal process (such as it is or can be applied in this instance) may be at an irreconcilable impasse.

    Donald Trump is in no way himself any sort of legal expert (because bankruptcies and payoffs don't count)...nor, it seems, is anybody currently in his employ. But for all the smoke (and perhaps even subsequent fire), there may not be anything that can be done (or in legal terms, SHOULD be done) except to do something about the mechanism that enabled a shyster like Trump, with all of his financial whatever-it-is-he's-up-to, to somehow get himself elected into a job that he wasn't trying to win, and doesn't really want to do even if he had the first, second or last idea how to do it, because of all the loose change floating around federal (and even state and local) elections thanks to this insane premise that somehow, a dollar is worth more than a voice...or can function as a reasonable substitute.

    I mean, Christ...

    ...people child-proof the cabinets in their homes to keep the little dickenses out of the bathroom cleaner...and pay a pretty penny to do it...

    ...who thinks it's a good idea to let somebody with criminal organizational hooks in them run around a horse trough full of money, and try to convince somebody later that they're surprised that he couldn't keep his tiny hands to himself...?
     
    #4139 mdrowe00, Aug 22, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
  20. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Constant, easily disproven lies...

     
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