As I showed you, that is a limited and shallow definition of success. It is success in some areas. It certainly isn't success in the most important ways, or ways representitive of an entire community.
I can't understand why nothing is written on the utter failure of White Americans in keeping Asians down. They're partnering with Asian companies all over the globe willingly with no coersion, White guys marrying Asian women at an alarming rate (You should see house hunters on HGTV), turn jelly knees at the sight of Eurasion women like Kate Beckingsale and Kristen Kreuk. Patronizing Chinatowns and eating Chinese food, buying Japanese cars, they even buy HDTV's made by Asian companies, they hire Asian engineers, cared for by Asian nurses, having Asian neighors, nice Christian southern couples adopting Chinese baby girls by the thouasnds. I could spend the next 2 days in listing further failures but you get point. Asians per capita income is higher than Whites (don't have exact figure). To top it off, a deep south city is beginning to like a tall Chinese guy who plays on a basketball team. Needless to say, the failure of White racism on Asians is monumental.
I agree also that the race card is played to often. The vast majority of public schooling is bad. Urban schools are beyond reprehensible. I sorely wish we would see a DRAMATIC overhauling of our education system. We definitely agree on this. I don't know your situation, you don't know mine, and we don't know everyone elses. I am not say that confrontationally. Personally, I don't do without but it isn't like life has been a cake walk and it definitely hasn't been this way my whole life. I feel that a lot of people need more accountability for their actions. I will agree with you that blanket statements in either directions are ridiculous. Perhaps I feel that there is a right way to b**** and a wrong way to b****. I can't stand b****ing for the sake of b****ing and with no follow through. I think that there are a lot of people that expect certain things to be handed to them. b****ing with a purpose for change is different. I don't feel that there is a lot of that going on though. Your friend has a right to b**** and I hope that his b****ing leads to the changes needed in his area. I have already admitted that some b****ing is good but b****ing alone isn't going to change their situation. Some sort of action in addition to the b****ing needs to take place. Do you agree with that?
Indians should count since they are Asian. Anyway that is one house at the federal level. That is great. Which committees do they chair, or do they sit on? How influential are they? That is what it is really all about.
Sounds like we don't disagree on much if anything at all. My point is that a prerequisite to solving the problem is acknowledging its existance which articles like the one posted do. (as badly as it is written) Many people don't have the agency or position to demand change because they are poor and generally pretty disenfranchised. Thus, the burden falls to the public at large to start demanding change. Covert forms of discrimination via unequal educational systems, law enforcement, and other government functions should still be an issue of debate. It really is something people don't talk about enough, and certainly don't know enough about.
i don't understand the point of the article. what should we get from it? should we feel bad that we are white? is it just to see that there are advantages to being white? we already know there are networking and social advantages to being white since whites hold the power in society. we also know there are social/developmental advantages to having a stable family that promotes education. that is best shown with the asian-american population (yes, more than whites), because they stress education so hard. also, the asian family structure is very stable (again, more than whites). is he going to write a contrasting article that states how hard it is to be black? he certainly seems to be taking the white apologist tone that many whites within the african american studies field have. yes i have been apart of african american studies courses. no it doesn't make me an expert on everything in the field but if you read just about anything within the field you will see what i am talking about.
I posted this because I believe white privelage is real. White privelage says that whites have built-in advanteges in a predominately white society (as far as POWER goes, not numbers). White privelage doesn't say that whites have it easy or that blacks can't make it in this society. White privelage doesn't state that white people don't work hard for what they have. It simply states that a privelage is there. DO YOU DENY THAT? That's what the writer is trying to say. Did you not see this part before you went on your hissy fit: "Can we accept that many white people have worked hard to accomplish things, and that those people's accomplishments were made possible in part because they were white in a white-supremacist society?" I (black male from 3rd Ward) know I have worked hard in my life. However, I can admit that I was blessed to have both of my parents involved (i.e. a father around), unlike a lot of my friends. I can admit that I was fortunate enough to go to "good schools" like River Oaks and the Washington mangnet program as opposed to poor schools like Ryan or Yates. Yes, folks can be successful coming from those poor urban schools, but the odds are significantly less. I know I have worked hard, but I am aware enough to say it's not all just "me". I had a support system to lean on. So did the writer, and one of his was white privelage.
I think you should understand that there are advanteges. A lot of folks feel there is an equal playing field, when there isn't. That doesn't mean folks can't succeed with an unequal playing field. That is one of the advanteges that I had (along with a quality education at properly funded schools). I recognize this. He's not black, but there are plenty of pieces out there on how hard it is to be black (way too many). Have you ever considered taking an african american studies course taught by someone who isn't white? I'm sure you won't get an apoligetic vibe there.
So what is your point then? If this white privilege exist, what do you want us as white people to do about it? And to answer your question, no, I do not believe a white privilege exist. I believe there is a green privilege. It doesn't matter what color you are if you have the green. Green gets you much further than white.
Just recognize. I would like to see more done about the poor urban schools, but I wanna see that regardless. Green can get you far, but did you not see the other posters comment about the Koreans and the LA riots? They had green. Green won't get me too far in Vidor.
I agree that there is privilege in society especially for the majority of caucasians, but you're approaching it the wrong way. I find that too many authors who discuss and dissect race make broad and sweeping statements like white people are privileged and it's not fair rather than focusing on specifics. Making broad statements without any real substance just makes you look bad and gives ammunition to those who say you're simply complaining for the sake of complaining. Instead of posting a broad generalized critique of privilege that is sure to get you flamed from the right, post an article on a specific example (i.e. urban schooling which you pointed out) or some other issue that you believe privilege impacts. It's an important discussion but you have to start it properly, otherwise you just sound like you're whining for no real reason.
Some of the best engineers in my organization are Asian. Unfortunately, the good old boy network here prevents them for being considered for management or director level positions.
The article gave specific examples on how the privelage impacted him in his second story (school, work, etc). Also, it's an excerpt from a book on the topic, which I'm sure gives more examples.
Recognize? That to me, sounds like b****ing for the sake of b****ing. Koreans or the stars of Beverly Hills (who are of all races), hmm, I wonder who's going to win that battle. Again, I doubt the Koreans have as much money as Hollywood. Green privilege.
Well we are all entitled to our opinions. To me, recognition means a lot. Typically some folks change their behavior towards things once they recognize how something is. You are correct, green will get ya a long way. Again, green won't help me too much in Vidor, no matter how much money I have. Green doesn't stop folks from assuming I played a sport for UT when they find out I went there, etc.
i thought i expressed that i understood that there is an unequal playing field when i said "we already know there are networking and social advantages to being white since whites hold the power in society." i'm glad you do because this issue does not get enough attention. people seem to gloss over the unstable family issue when dealing with major problems faced by american blacks. i know he isn't black. he is a white prof at UT. I went to UT. My african american studies prof was a black woman, Chiquita Collins. I took it after reading the book Losing the Race by John McWhorter. I was disappointed to see he was correct on some of the intellectual issues within African American studies. African-American studies comes off as somewhat intellectually weak because there is too much focus placed on blame and victimization and other issues, such as the break down of the family structure after WWII, are ignored or not even accepted as valid reasons for trouble within black american society. I'm not explaining it perfectly. I would need to read over some of my old books from that class to give you more specific ideas of what I am talking about.
Is anyone going to actually read the book? I think the point was not to say all whites are better off than everyone else, but merely if you are white, there are things in society that are in your favor compared to non-whites. Since people love to bring up asians to counter white priviledge, saying if they can do it, everyone else (blacks/latinos) should be. But asians are one of the fastest growing groups in america next to latinos because of immigration, and similarily face the same difficulties. One easy example is language. If you learned English as a first language, it's easy to dismiss how hard it is for someone else to learn it as a 2nd or 3rd language. Not everyone can afford Colin Pine like Yao to follow him around and teach them English. Also, Asians DO NOT make more than whites in salary. The misconception is that there are a lot of illegal immigrants who are Asian that do not get counted, and on top of that, data for Asians are often skewed so that "rich" Asians get counted, whereas the "poor" Asians get omitted. The example would be business folk originally from Asia than come to America would boost up the numbers, but typically poorer Asians like from Southeast Asia that live in ghettos are ignored. And since Asians in America are only 4% at the most of the population, it doesn't take much to mix the numbers. Even if you just look at "rich" Asians you see their eduation is highly disproportionally from their earning power. How many asians are in executive levels in major companies? Yes the enrollments among prestigious universities are high, but it doesn't translate. Does anyone know the story of Vincent Chin? He was a regular dude who was chilling at a strip club in Detroit during the 80s when lots of american auto workers were getting laid off from competition from Japanese competition. Two disgruntled ex-auto workers are at the club and most likely drunk took their frustrations on Vincent cause he looked Japanese even though he was Chinese. They chased him around and eventually bashed his face in with a bat eventually killing him. WTF does this have to do with anything? This is where the power and influence comes in. Maybe Vincent was decently well off and made a good salary. Or not. Who knows. It doesn't matter because the two guys who killed him got no jail time and only a small fine which they probably didn't pay. The judge said the killers weren't the type to go to jail. Did the judge say that because they were white? No one knows of course. But you can guarantee the if the situation was reversed, with 2 asian guys killing a white guy in a racially charged beating, you know they would throws the books at them. So basically the law may have been clear, but those in power ultimately decided if it should have been carried out. If anyone is interested, they should google up Vincent Chin cause there's definitely more to the story than my half ass summary. But to claim asians, which include Indians, Middle Eastern, Persian folk as the model minority is hurtful and deceptive because they are mainly immigrants that came after 1965 when the Civil Rights Laws ended unequal quotas on certain countries with higher education or middle to upper class, but they still face specific problems in America because of race.
