1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Ringer/KOC] The Rockets Don’t Have a Switch to Flip. They’ll Have to Acquire One

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Deuce, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,579
    Likes Received:
    35,658
    I get it that the switching is key to beating the Warriors. But if it is a problem with the rest of the league...that is 28 other teams. They got to figure this out. The rebounding, the personnel. ugh.
     
  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    73,227
    Likes Received:
    111,405
    is this a Melo thread? asking for a friend
     
  3. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,356
    Likes Received:
    13,247
    Great write-up. Love how they are using facts, lol, and not just random qualitative crap.

    Not that the facts are eye opening for any of us that have been watching. But good to see the #s backing it up.

    The Capela guarding guards in isolation #s are a bit surprising. The main reason why it'd be so high this year is the rest of the league changing/adapting how to play and specifically how to attack the Rockets switching... and that would have happened whomever DM picked up.

    But that aside... it is what it is.

    Portis is an interesting name... not sure his current injury situation, or why the Bulls would move him for whatever crap the Rockets offered, though.

    Given that, and given the also "obvious" comments about guys like Kevin Love or Otto Porter... It REALLY does start to make you think, pretty soon might be the time to think completely different, more drastic moves. Meaning, Tilman definitely has a P&L to consider here, and anyone who has looked at how punitive the repeater tax starts to get year after year will recognize you don't pay it without championships.

    Granted, I've been more on this train for 18 months now, because of the Warriors dynasty, but if this is the direction the team is going, I'd at least be interested to see what DM might could do when your tradeable assets include Harden, CP3 and Capela, with an 3 year goal of being good again...
     
    BaselineFade likes this.
  4. Pizza_Da_Hut

    Pizza_Da_Hut I put on pants for this?

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2003
    Messages:
    11,323
    Likes Received:
    4,119
    So, for me, the TLDR version of this is that the one size fits all mentality isn't working. That makes sense to me.

    Again, for me, this all goes back to shooting and confidence. The very real issue here is the MDA philosophy that he preached in the Utah game of needing to ride Harden on the way to a win. That won't work. It needs to stop. You can't ride Harden on your way to a win and in the same breath criticize him for lazy passes on offense and lackluster perimeter defense. We are getting drilled on the fast break and can't shoot worth a damn. Defense confounds this for sure, but when teams are allowed to penetrate a Rockets team that is running back on a miss it's causing so many issues. The rockets make their shots and suddenly we have an avenue to get back and set up.

    Maybe the rockets adopt a philosophy of no offensive rebounding, or decrease it. On shots maybe we run back? I'm not sure, but that would definitely give the defense more time to get it together.
     
  5. Pizza_Da_Hut

    Pizza_Da_Hut I put on pants for this?

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2003
    Messages:
    11,323
    Likes Received:
    4,119
    I know what you're doing, and believe me I LOL'd, but you're playing a dangerous game friend.
     
    topfive likes this.
  6. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,615
    Likes Received:
    56,405
    did you read my post? I won't bother repeating myself, except to say my post agreed with this.
     
  7. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,356
    Likes Received:
    13,247
    I don't want to talk out of both sides of my mouth... because ABSOLUTELY, the roster is way too thin on the whole.

    That said... Harden is getting $30 million this year and it will rise to $47 MILLION by 2022-2023.

    There are definitely other superstars that have flaws... perhaps masked by their squads as a whole. Curry isn't a great defender either. KD's passive-aggressive ISO attitude has proven to not work as the #1 guy in clutch situations when not surrounded by all time talent. Lebron can't hit FTs. Giannis can't shoot threes. AD seems incapable of "carrying" a team. Kobe shot too much. Shaq couldn't hit free throws and was a bad perimeter defender. MJ was an ******* teammate. Hakeem was too selfish early on.

    Etc, etc, etc, etc,.

    That said... is it really too much to want your MVP #1, $40 million+ a year guy to not be a sieve defensively, limit turnovers down the stretch and do something else on offense other than stand at the top of the key when they ball isn't in his hands?

    This isn't Harden's "fault", but its not completely not his fault either.
     
    fryjol7 likes this.
  8. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,579
    Likes Received:
    35,658
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,785
    Likes Received:
    115,138
    A lot of it comes down to talent and depth.

    If those areas improve, most of the other concerns will be addressed accordingly.

    The good news is that there are players out there that address most of the Rockets needs and they are not star players. Accordingly they can be had on the trade market.

    The bad news is that the Rockets have limited assets and have to decide if they are willing to take back longer contracts for better players and/or risk trading their draft picks.
     
  10. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,615
    Likes Received:
    56,405
    Nearly every single team allows Harden/Paul to do this to them, too. Why is it just a Rockets problem, if every team switches like this against premier PnR offenses?

    That's the question which I believe makes this a more interesting conversation, rather than devolving to a discussion of drastic change....based upon not having any stats to show what occurs when Rockets don't switch....or when teams don't switch against us.
     
  11. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,579
    Likes Received:
    35,658
    The very real issue here is the MDA philosophy that he preached in the Utah game of needing to ride Harden on the way to a win. That won't work. It needs to stop. You can't ride Harden on your way to a win and in the same breath criticize him for lazy passes on offense and lackluster perimeter defense.


    That is precisely what @Nook was talking about in a recent post and why getting depth is paramount.


     
    fryjol7 and Pizza_Da_Hut like this.
  12. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,579
    Likes Received:
    35,658
    I did read it. Was just agreeing that this was a problem
     
    Nook likes this.
  13. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,785
    Likes Received:
    115,138
    James Harden isn't the Rockets biggest defensive issue, and he has played defense adequately in the past. If the team improves their talent level, and the communication on defense improves, it is very likely Harden will be fine defensively.

    You are going to be very hard pressed to find many players that have to shoulder the offensive load Harden is carrying at 29 years. You are going to find even less players that carried that load and were solid defensively. Kobe Bryant and Russell Westbrook carried a similar load and were poor defensively when they did.

    A lot of these problems would be less glaring or rectified if the Rockets had improved talent/depth.
     
    clutchdabear, payaso and Deuce like this.
  14. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,356
    Likes Received:
    13,247
    Already replied to this.

    Notwithstanding the fact that (i) the Rockets need a lot more good talent/depth, and (ii) it doesn't matter whether you get on Harden for lazy passes and/or lackluster perimeter defense or not, he is what he is at this point (turnovers could go down with someone else handling the ball more, but do you want that?)....

    Why CAN'T you get on Harden for this?? I don't get this approach. I want my MVP superstar to not be a complete sieve defensively and not currently be leading the league in total turnovers for what would be the 5th season of the last 7.
     
  15. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,615
    Likes Received:
    56,405
    Keep in mind, none of these articles have stats showing what happens when the Rockets *don't* switch ... so none of them can show the complete picture that Bzdelik does indeed have stats for....that is none of the articles can help us understand the disadvantages of other defenses.

    There's an analogy/idiom in there somewhere about Kids questioning Parental rules, but the kids don't have the data the Parent does.
     
  16. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,629
    Likes Received:
    11,030
    Everything you mentioned might be solved by lowering Harden's usage, which is up this year. However, when his teammates aren't hitting open shots like they were last year, it's hard to lower his usage when he's the only consistent offensive force on the team.

    That goes back to talent. Surround Harden with guys that can fulfill their roles (mainly hitting the open shot, rebounding, and playing defense) and Harden won't be doing as many of the negatives that you're pointing out.
     
    Deuce likes this.
  17. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,579
    Likes Received:
    35,658
    You can get on him for that. But I also think the point that is being thrown out there is Harden only has a finite amount of energy and focus. And if the Rockets demand "too much" on Harden to "drive the engine" it takes away from those other things.

    What @Nook is saying is Harden will level off, and fix those holes if the roster gets tweaked that allows him to "back off" from driving so hard at being the engine.
     
  18. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    28,004
    Likes Received:
    23,212
    Good read. Makes sense. I don't see us getting anyone who can really help, so... that sucks.
     
    RyanB likes this.
  19. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,579
    Likes Received:
    35,658
    Bingo.

     
  20. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Messages:
    33,448
    Likes Received:
    19,324
    if only Murray had discussed things with KOC when he decided to not re-sign Ariza and replace him with carnelo and james ennis.
     
    RyanB likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now