[Reuters] Report: Bush Gave CIA Expansive Interrogation Power

This goes along with one of the reasons about why the hypothetical nuke in Times square type scenario is so flawed. The suspect in this case was lying. The life was not saved.

Had torture been legal the officer who would have done the torture didn't have a sure knowledge that the person could be saved, didn't know when he was being lied to, etc.

It's kind of like people who are theoretically in favor of the death penalty but against it because man is in fallable and they make mistakes.

Imagine a scenario where torture is deemed to be ok. The kidnapper is a terrorist who has planted a nuke in a major city. First of all the officer assumed there was a way to stop the bomb. Then he believed torture would be able to get the correct information from the suspect. The suspect would have tortured the individual who would have lied, and the bomb would still have gone off. Torture was used and nobody was saved.

 

The U.S. could have stopped those planes. It was no surprise to the government. I strongly suggest you read the book "Crossing the Rubicon" by Mike Ruppert. It is a throughly researched and documented and footnoted account of how 9-11 happened. Before you can understand why we are in Afganistan, Iraq and threatening Iran you need to understand what really happened on 9-11.

You will come up with all kinds of false conclusions about terrorism and torture unless you know who perpetrated the murder of over 3000 Americans in the world trade center.

You cannot read this book and ever look at your government the same.

Here is the link. http://www.copvcia.com

This is not a wacko book, it is documented and full of actual documents, direct quotes and a thorough investigation of the governments involvment and motives for 9-11. It is a must read for anyone who wants to understanding what it happening today in the world. You will not here about the book in the national media.

Check it out if you have the courage and love enough for America to read it.

 

give me a break.

 

"Give me a break" was my reaction to the book when it was offered to me.

Also my reaction were- "Idiotic", "Conspiracy ****" and since I am a Bush guy- "another anit-Bush attack"

Don't know why, but I read the book. (it is thick)

I followed up on the documentation.

Don't even make a comment unless you try reading the book.
And follow up on the footnotes.

I have since stuck my head back in the sand and all is well.
(didn't even know my head was in the sand)

This one book will send you reeling if you read it.

If you don't read it, don't worry 95% of Americans aren't going to either and it is without doubt the best investigative work I have ever read.

I have had people throw this one book back at me as I tried to suggest they read it. Now I am content to go back to believing that all is well.

No body really wants to know how deep the rabbit hole is to borrow the line from the Matrix. I don't want to know anymore.

Can't change it and it is way over my head.

But it was life shaking to have that much light shed on such an important subject.

You read the book then tell me, "Give me a break"

 

I visited the website and I will admit that it is a bit extreme. As much as I hate Dick Cheney, I don't think he was behind 9/11. But nevertheless, I plan on reading the book.

 

AggieRocket- exactly, and I don't like grabbing stuff off those type websites because of how easy it is to make your "slant" and it is so difficult to get to documention that you can feel personally is credible. There is just so much out on the internet and so many "out there" sites.

But you will not regret reading the book, it is well written (bogs down in the middle some) and I got more from contesting what was written and checking out alot of the footnotes. I learned more trying to find fault with the book and doing my own homework. I get an upset stomach thinking about it and I am serious when I say I would rather just put my head back in the sand.

As far as indicting Cheney, that is not the most riveting part of the book, IMHO

This book reveals an America I don't want to think about.

So I will watch the Rockets, root for my team and pretend our politicians have nothing but the Golden Rule flowing through their veins.

I'm not a coward either. Just don't know what my bb gun does against a battleship.

The book isn't going to make any waves amongst the population in general. So I am satified just knowing that there is much more happening than what Washington, CNN or political parties roll out to us masses. There is a rabbit hole and it runs real deep and things aren't what they appear.

Everyone who likes to talk about Iraq and American foreign policy should read this book.

 

So...rhester...

Are all the major new outlets naive, complacent, or part of the conspiracy??

I'll agree they each have their biases, but I've never met a reporter who would deliberatly cover all this up. It's possible a few would, but I'm not quite willing to implicate them all at this time.

(I really shouldn't open this debate)

 

bnb- my opinion is none of the above.

I would say the opposite they are pretty smart people, they work hard for stories and don't carry the conspiracy card in their pocket.

The answer for me is the owners of media giants have their own motives and alliances and I would not expect any direction to come from the highest corporate offices to touch something of this caliber. This is a separate issue to explore but don't expect billionaire media owners to have any vested interest in this subject.

As far as the network, new services and reporting minions, some have gone after this (most out of purely election year political reasons) and some have actually promoted the book and its message, quoted it etc. Several Congressmen/women have also taken up the issue. There are several lawsuits addressing it also in the state of NY.

But any media person that might want to go after this issue risks
everything. From complete embarrassment to loss of income or worse.

Let me go back to the Kennedy Assasination which is one of the most publicly debated incidents of "conspiracy" , "what really happened", "who did what" this country has experienced.- No matter what you or I or anyone believes about that event, none of us today can argue that what has now been disclosed-documents and testimony and investigations -lines up with what the best of the media reported to us as it happened.

What was hidden was hidden for a long time. Don't want to open all the conspiracy cans, just believe reading this book has really impacted me as a card carrying Republican.

I would suggest to you that the media would be all over 9-11 if they had any shot at getting some testimony that would open a crack to them.

There are several Congressmen/women still trying to get an investigation going based upon the research in the book Crossing the Rubicon. Congresswoman Cynthia MKinnley of Georgia recently had opportunity to confront Donald Rumsfeld on one of the important issues documented in the book. She contacted Mike Ruppert for his documentation and brought it to Sec. Rumsfeld's attention at a Comgressional breakfast. It is on the record, however Mr. Rumsfeld refused to respond and she was shut down immediately. This happened within the last couple weeks.

I do not expect for you to see this on the evening news.

If you would like links to this or several other congressional attempts from both parties to get more info from the administration concerning 9-11 and their failure, I can provide that for you.

Also I can provide links to reputable media sources that have attempted to give these issues national exposure.

I would rather you read the book, don't be afraid.

I don't see any profit in me defending this book. The issue is too serious for me to adequately do that. I just thought people who aren't afraid of having their belief systems tried would profit greatly from reading this. Deception is a funny thing, if you are the one deceived you cannot be aware of it.

I love truth. I don't have claims to it. But when I see it I feel better. That's all for me.

I will say I do not believe the public at large knows the truth about 9-11. Everyone has an opinion- truth is something God knows and we have to hope we find. But truth is truth and ultimately verifiable.

Head back in the sand.

 

rhester...

i've got this bridge...in brooklyn...

 

NJRocket-

Which oil well should I trade you for...

All of us in Houston own several.

I know I read a good book. Of course that was my opinion. The best part of opinions is everyone gets one.

Most people don't really care about truth or accuracy anyway, it gets in the way of life.

And you certainly don't need any point of view other than your own to be right in your own eyes.

I read that book against my better judgment and it made me think more than the sports section of the paper and the comic strips put together.
That's should impress any Rocket fan.

Read the book, if you come to the conclusion you wasted your time I will refund you the cost of the book. And I will shut up.

Which is what I usually should do in the first place.

 

rhester-

there is no reason why you should shut up in the first place. This is the D&D and from what I understand, the entire purpose of having this section is for people to post their views and to engage in meaningful debate and discussion.

i'll admit that i think that some of the things your book suggests are crazy to say the least. I'm forming this judgment on the basis of the editorial reviews online of the book. But at the same time, I have not read the book and I'm sure the book attempts to successfully establish the premises mentioned in the reviews. How successfully the premises are established remains to be seen and I'll be in a better position to make that determination once I read the book.

You seem to be an intelligent person who is not afraid to read/explore unpopular things, which is something I can respect. Please don't feel that you should not post here. This forum needs opinions from all spectrums in order for it to serve its purpose. As far as I am concerned, worst case scenario, I'll read the book and think you are a nutcase