[Reuters] Report: Bush Gave CIA Expansive Interrogation Power

You're reasonably close fit for the profile of the suspects they are looking for in the murder of that federal judge's husband and mother. Would it be okay if the government picked you up in a sweep, shipped you to Syria, and winked while they ran a few thousand volts through your scrotum until they were satisfied that you didn't have anything to do with it or got bored, which ever comes first.

 

wow

 

lets call a spade a spade.....the people detained were suspected of having knowledge of terrorism...they didnt just pull names out of a hat....so, that being the case, YES, i am ok with if it turns out that we stop 1 guilty person and opposed to zero

 

Hit a nerve? The only nerves you are stroking are your own.

What's your beef exactly, that I predicted that you would explain to us tthat it gives you pleasure when arabs are tortured in a series of pointless one liners? Yeah, you did. You're doing so right now, in keeping with past behavior.

http://bbs2.clutchfans.net/showthre...&perpage=30&highlight=Abu Ghraib&pagenumber=3

What's your problem? We know what you are, and what you have to say. You think I'm being insulting about it, whatever. Don't read my posts then.

 

Actually his repeated obsession with torture and the fact that he's a suburban middle aged guy makes him sound a lot more like that BTK guy...

EDIT: whoops, looks like you already picked up that one.

 

come on, NJ. then nothing gets fixed. the US isn't perfect. nowhere close. it requires people standing up and saying, "this is wrong...that is wrong." in this case you don't agree that it was wrong. but i'm certain that in other situations you would see your post above as ridiculous.

"yep...the US is alllll about segregation. don't like it? leave!!! stop your whining!!!" that doesn't get us very far, NJ.

 

nice try......why you try it with apples and apples.....the thread has to do with terrorism against the United states....not a homicide

 

I dont have a beef.....you are the one complaining about the torture...I simply said I was ok with it. Again, as for caring about your insults....I don't. Please...you are obviously getting offended to the point that you need to call me names and thats fine....its a sign that you are just upset with my point of view and that you arent able to agree to disagree....doesnt shock me.

 

Max...the point is that all of these anti war, anti bush etc people sit here an complain about the way our country goes about things. Not to sound like a movie clip but like Nicholson said in "A Few Good Men"....dont complain about the way I the govt provides security ...or something to that extent. The world changed after 9-11...rules of engagement changed....the enemy changed...and thus our means of getting things done have changed...and if this is going to make some lose sleep, all I am saying is that you can try living elsewhere

 

Sam, you have made a flurry of typos in this ongoing exchange with NJRocket. Please make an effort to correct those and put out a quality work product for us to read in the future.

I'm sure you wouldn't present your partner at work with a document full of typos, so we shouldn't have to deal with it, either.

Now get back to counting the sheets of paper in that box and filing papers.

 

Sorry, I gave you too much credit. My bad. I figured you were informed enough to know they are looking hard at right wing nuts a la Timothy McVeigh, for those killings. In other words they are looking into the possibility that the murders were committed by terrorists.

 

not when it comes to stopping terrorism against the US

 

well done...only took you a page and a half to mention Tim McVeigh

if you have 2 apples and 1 orange...and someone takes away an apple....what are you left with?

 

I disagree with your point of view because it is devoid of any intellectual merit. This has been demonstrated in the past (Read the last thread that I linked to - you tried to claim that the killings at Falluja in 2004 were sufficient provocation for the torture of innocents at Abu Ghraib -- which occurred in 2003.)

This kind of intellectual deficiency is not the mark of somebody who knows what they are talking about or has come to a reasoned conclusion, rather it resembles someone who enjoys taking an inflammatory position for the sake of taking it and who is ignorant of the facts behind it.

This does make you kind of an idiot, one who says unintentionally funny things like " hey this has to do with terrorism, not homicide!"

I mean, I suppose you are right, it is overkill for me to point it that your posts are idiotic when you do a pretty good job on your own.

 

I disagree with your point of view because it is devoid of any intellectual merit

no, you disagree because we have different points of view on this

This kind of intellectual deficiency is not the mark of somebody who knows what they are talking about or has come to a reasoned conclusion, rather it resembles someone who enjoys taking an inflammatory position for the sake of taking it and who is ignorant of the facts behind it.

Fact - terrorists changed the world as we know it on 9-11....we did what we thought was necessary

This does make you kind of an idiot, one who says unintentionally funny things like " hey this has to do with terrorism, not homicide

if you didnt understand the difference...and the example i was making....perhaps you should lecture yourself about merit

I mean, I suppose you are right, it is overkill for me to point it that your posts are idiotic when you do a pretty good job on your own.

you really should be less condescending...it makes you look like you are reaching

 

If you are fundamentally opposed to torture of anyone by any method, then you are not going to be persuaded otherwise. However, to support the concept of torture is not inherently anti-intellectual - there IS a basis for its effectiveness (see Vietnamese torture of Americans, See French torture of Algierians, for example). While there is no certainty that information gained through torture (and some methods are more effective than others) - there ARE concrete examples of usable intelligence being gained this way. To declare that torture is NOT effective is a huge extrapolation from a few sources, most of which point to the percentage of success/reliability, rather than lack thereof.

From the article Sam linked to:

"But Rohan Gunaratna, a Sri Lankan expert on terrorist interrogations who has consulted with several intelligence agencies, argued that rough tactics “can save hundreds of lives.” He said, “When you capture a terrorist, he may know when the next operation will be staged, so it may be necessary to put a detainee under physical or psychological pressure. I disagree with physical torture, but sometimes the threat of it must be used.”

If your problem is the current scope of the rendition program, ala Scheur in the article - I can understand that. He details how profiles were diligently produced before 9/11 for suspects where there was a large body of evidence for their detention. This position, as articulated in the article, however, is not a position AGAINST torture.

 

i understand your point of view. i just have a hard time saying due process doesn't matter anymore. if it doesn't, what are we fighting for? just our own lives? we could all just move to sweden. if we believe our system is under attack..our freedom...then we don't tear away at the underpinnings of our Constitution to fight that enemy. at least i don't believe we should. particuarly when we're so quick to criticize the human rights records of other countries.

 

NJRocket, you don't understand the concept of merit.

You simply have an opinion - yet you don't back up this opinion with anything even approaching logical or reasoned.

You don't address any of the concerns expressed, either the philosophical or the pragmatic ones, and you don't provide any support or counterargument but the weakest of crutches (9-11 changed everything! - here we go again) which don't even begin to address the substantive arguments about rendition. (e.g., torture does not work, etc.)

That is why your posts lack merit, and why you are forced to say silly things like "hey, no fair you're talking about homicide, I'm talking about terrorism!" and not realize that there's no fighting in the war room.

Everybody has a right to their own opinion - but everybody's opinion is not equally valuable, especially somebody who is not very well informed on the subject about which they opine. This means you.